Post # 107
With regards to your first paragraph, please point out where I have brought this up before. I haven’t, so saying that to do so repeatedly fuels the fire is not untrue but also irrelevant for a direct reply about what I have said. And I agree that it should try to be handled privately first, but it seems that there are quite a few of us who have tried to deal with it privately and gotten no response, thus making a post like this essential. Consider, too, the people who are privately dealing with this and haven’t posted yet, it being statistically probable that this is happening more than we are aware.
Other posters have a right to know that this is how WB is run and this is what others are dealing with. Do I think they have the community’s best interest at heart? Probably, but that’s not the same as trusting them — they’re humans, and they are directly affected by all this.
And no one said anything about bringing them down or oppressive forces, as far as I can see in this thread. Comments like that and ending with sound bites like “[These posts] are tearing [the community] apart,” which are unsubstantiated by prior comments, do ring a little of rhetorical, propagandistic over-generalization designed to create sides such that the majority can espouse your beliefs more easily.
Post # 108
There are rules and guidelines, but they basically just say “no personal attacks and no snarkiness.” I think she means that there should be a concrete outline of what exactly constitutes each, as the problems come in with the arbitrary and subjective interpretation on what crosses those lines.
Post # 109
It’s not that easy. They do have a set of rules:
While you can certainly disagree with a blogger or another commenter’s ideas, we ask that you refrain from leaving comments that include personal attacks, snarkiness, defamatory remarks, racist remarks, threats, and excessive profanity.
But how you define “personal attack” or “snarkiness” may be different than how I define it. Or how Mr. Bee defines it. It may even be that Mr. Bee and his mods sometimes see it differently.
I think sometimes you’re going to get warned when you don’t think you should and sometimes things that should get warnings slip under the radar. That’s just going to be part of any large site with several different moderators. There are things that could make it more “fair” but it will add more work and time. Not sure what Mr. Bee’s new plan is, it could be to add a moderation panel or something similar. Guess we’ll have to see.
Post # 110
wow i just read through this and i can totally relate…. i too have had posts deleted because i violated rules…. what rules? i was honest and blunt… but in no way snarky or rude…. i guess youre right… rainbows and butterflys from now on. all i have to say is its ridiculous and its resulted in my posting much less here. i hope the mods start giving reasons instead of a general ‘you broke the rules’. that would help alot. <—- are you reading this mr bee??? lol
Post # 111
Hmmm I’ve never been warned and I’m a constant poster. I wonder if any of my comments have been deleted?? I know I can be tough when I’m trying to have one of the girls on here’s back.
Post # 112
But how can you really make definitions for each? Women are very passive agressive and wonderful with words! What would normally sound so nice can actually be very mean and biting. I really don’t see how we can possibly make enforsable concrete definitions in that regard.
Post # 113
I have never been warned either. I only know of 1 comment I had deleted and it was when I figured out another pot roast alias and called her rude. It’s possible I have had other deletions but not that I know of.
Post # 114
I agree completely. I don’t usually post on threads like this because I don’t like adding to the drama that’s already being created but I wanted to let you know that you aren’t the only person who feels this way.
Post # 115
@Amaryllis: I’m sorry I wrongfully included you with Lezlers. Rereading your post, you’re right; I don’t remember you having brought up this story before. I don’t read every thread, but I don’t remember this specific story.
However, I do believe that these types of posts contribute to the negativity toward the mods and the site in general. If you haven’t seen the posts in this thread that specifically say the mods have too much power, are out of control, and need to be reigned in, I will PM you quotes. Contrary to popular belief, it doesn’t have to be all “puppies and rainbows” here; we can have disagreements and honest discourse. but add a couple trolls in here or there, and a couple sensitive posters who flag everything as “snarky” and then pile a couple of these posts on top and our community quickly begins to fall apart. We’re a site built on trust, kindness, and friendship; when those things begin to disintegrate, what’re we left with?
All I’m saying is that you, personally, can add to the atmosphere that makes this place so great by being tactful in your responses and by following the systems that are in place until Mr. Bee comes up with a solution that will curb a lot of these mod mistakes. I’m not saying bury everything so that only positive threads are allowed on the boards; I’m saying go through the proper system first. If you don’t get a response, then bring it to the community. And then, when Mr. Bee says he’s heard your complaints and he’s trying to fix things, trust him to follow through on his promise. Be involved by offering solutions or by volunteering to help moderate; don’t add to the negativity. See what I’m saying?
Post # 116
I don’t think anyone at all is anti-mod (well, except for maybe the troll that shall not be named, lol) and I do think that most of us always say we understand what a tough job it is everytime a thread such as this happens. But for people such as myself, who did pm the mod that warned us and never heard anything back or have not received any clarification in a month or so.
I don’t think anyone is saying that they don’t ‘trust’ the mods per se, but do I think they have everyone’s best interest at heart? I don’t know, that would be tough, no? I think that if mods are deleting posts that aren’t spam, trolls or an attack and not pming the person to let them know …well, then no I guess. Or if by trying to keep WB ‘supportive’ that means not letting everyone simply have an opinion on things honestly or bluntly then no. Supportive doesn’t really mean coddled or even protected, you know? Of course I don’t want it to be a community where people curse each other out, tell others they are fat and ugly or attack each other. But we can’t disagree? Or we can’t challenge each other to think about things that could be out of our comfort zone? I’ve had the best ‘conversations’ here when someone has honestly and without pictures of puppies just gives me their viewpoint. Do I think mods are power drunk crazed people? No – absolutely not. Do I think they need to have less subjective guidelines to warnings or deletion? Yes.
Post # 117
I agree with your last paragraph here, but it did not come across that way in what you’d posted previously. And I do think that it might alleviate some of the problems if there were more moderators/hostesses/whatever so that they are not as overworked, but I honestly just don’t see where they’re looking for them. And the more cooks in the broth, the more there is a need for clearer guidelines.
For what it is worth, I repeatedly flag things with descriptions such as “self promotion” or “duplicate posts” to make them easy to go through for mods, and I comment in threads explaining to others about the self-promotion policies. I do it to try to help the mods out and because I think that the people whose threads are about to poof deserve to know why. I do think you and I are saying the same thing.
Post # 118
I think we’re all agreeing on the same thing here: better written, more specific, more easily regulated rules for the boards. Let’s give Mr. Bee a chance to come through on this one before creating more posts that add to the problem, ok? He hasn’t failed us before; I have full faith he’s going to find a solution that will work for us.
Also, Amaryllis, I believe I saw a post not too long ago (maybe a couple months ago?) asking for people to volunteer to be hostesses. And I know I saw something recently announcing the new hostesses. I bet any hostess, or Mr. Bee, would be happy to tell you the process if you PM’ed them; I, personally, don’t know what it is because I’ve never applied. And I think it would be really awesome to use your bad experiences and change them into something positive as a moderator! That’s the kind of approach to changing our community that I can really get behind. 🙂
Post # 119
This is why I was opposed to the whole “account suspension/deletion because of threadjacking, etc.”.
Post # 120
I’ve mentioned what happened to me twice, once in two different threads that happened to be started close in time together. If I see someone posting about something that happened to me as well, I’m going to let them know so they know they’re not alone. This is done in all types of threads, which is the same reason I know a lot of personal information about a lot of different Bees: because they post that information in various threads where it’s relevant. I offer no apologies for that.
Maybe, just maybe, if enough people complain about a percieved injustice, the powers that “bee” will do something about it. Try looking at it that way.
Post # 121
I agree that concerns and complaints about warnings from mods, deleted posts etc shoujld be brought to the admin’s attention before posting to the members.
The flip side of that is that members should be given an explanation by the mod when such actions are taken.
One point I would like to address is the discussion about the “tone” of the post being cause for concern. Newsflash people. There is no “tone” on the web. That’s one of the reasons why I often encourage bees to speak face to face with their bridesmaids etc when they post complaints about lack of response, help, participation etc.
If you are using the “tone” of a post as your reason to be offended, your umbrage is totally subjective.
Sorry you are having to deal with this. As the poster who originally raised the concern about the breach of ettiquette in the thread that started all of this, I think it was completely unwarranted to delete your post.