(Closed) Let's talk about things that REALLY matter…

posted 1 month ago in Beehive
Post # 17
2565 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: December 2017 - Courthouse

strawberrysakura :  I never thought of men paying for dates for women like this but it’s true. Men might have to/be expected to pay for a first date but don’t routinely deal with nearly as much sexual harassment, abuse, rapes, etc. So when you really think about it, it’s kind of a drop in the bucket. 

Post # 18
409 posts
Helper bee

I’m not going to excuse deliberate shitty behavior by anyone. I don’t care if they’re male or female, if they do it they deserve to be called out on it.

Post # 19
388 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: June 2018

needmorewine :  I don’t think she’s arguing that we “excuse” poor behavior. She’s saying that by bringing so much attention to the “bad things” women do, we’re sweeping under the rug the vastly more serious behaviors with which men have treated women for literally thousands of years. 

Post # 21
388 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: June 2018

strawberrysakura :  And the more that women squabble about what women do, those/that in power (a patriarchal system) win, since we’re not spending our time pushing back against its injustices. 

Post # 23
56 posts
Worker bee
  • Wedding: June 2019

I mean, I agree but I also don’t. I don’t think people should use other people, it’s a shitty thing to do. So if someone invites you out and you aren’t interested, you shouldn’t pretend to be so you can get something out of them. Men have feelings too, and this can be really hurtful. I think it’s ok if they say “hey, a woman used me for xyz and I think that kinda sucked. Please don’t do that kind of thing”. I think men using women for sex or a live in cook or baby machine is also horrid. But same thing if a woman uses a guy for a baby without his knowledge. Idk. It’s never ok in my opinion.

And sure, we can talk about how women face more oppression but the issues are linked. If a guy says “I felt used when she pretended to like me to get something out of me” and we just say “who cares” we are reinforcing the message that guys can’t feel hurt or used and that voicing that feeling is pointless. If we all say “wow I’m sorry, that was shitty, you didn’t deserve that” that is more productive in fighting toxic masculinity (which is perpetuated by both men and women and affects both men and women) than just acting like it doesn’t matter. If a guy saw my friend a few times and she willingly slept with him because she thought he liked him, only to find out he didn’t like her at all but was using her, I’d rightly call him an asshole and say that was totally unfair to her, that she is allowed to feel hurt by his actions, etc. I wouldn’t minimize how she felt because other women have been hurt “worse”. And I know you might say that he just lost some money and she lost something more significant (sex), but what if a guy pretended to be into a woman so she would vouch for him in an interview? Or led her to believe he liked her so he could showcase her at an event? Or even just used her for a ride to work a couple of times because he knew she liked him and would be willing to do so if she thought he returned her feelings? Are you ok with a guy leading a woman on in those scenarios? After all, she only lost some time and felt betrayed, nothing significant really…

I can get on board with saying articles like these make women look bad and detract from the work we are trying to do, which I agree with. But throwing men under the bus isn’t alright either! I’ll gladly fight for higher pay for women and way better paternity leave in the same breath. And just like I think it’s shitty for men to bash women for weight or their appearance, I sideye women who think it’s ok to say they won’t date a guy who is less than 6 feet because they “don’t do short guys”. Basically, people suck lol.

Post # 24
2503 posts
Sugar bee

Not the point but: When I was dating, guys rarely paid for my meals/drinks so if that had been my aim it wouldn’t have worked out very well for me. Even when I was dating lawyers and I was a broke grad student, usually I offered to split the bill and they took me up on it. Do some girls just not offer? I can’t imagine how awkward that would be to just assume your date is paying. I always appreciated it and gladly accepted when they offered, though. 

Post # 25
4528 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

strawberrysakura :  . It may seem like a stupid article about something crappy women do, but this stuff becomes gospel to men who already have issues with women. And that can have a real impact.

Well you don’t want to be in a relationship with a guy that has issues with women and judges them all by the transgressions of a few. These type of guys will grab on to anything to perpetuate the narrative already in their head. An article like this won’t impact the thinking of a normal guy who doesn’t buy into negative gender stereotypes. 

Post # 26
439 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: April 2018

strawberrysakura :  

The data is self reported, so it’s not the guy assuming the woman has done it, or the woman changing her mind about level of interest, or a woman giving a man a chance or any of the other suggestions you’ve made.  It’s women admitting themselves, that they’ve gone on a date for the sole purpose of a free meal. 

Going on a date with a person you aren’t interested in for the sole purpose of scoring a free meal, is dishonest, shitty behaviour.  

Trying to justify purposely treating a man poorly just because there are men who do far worst out there, is disgusting. 

If I was a man, I absolutely would want to know this information and it may impact my willingness to pay for future first dates if I suspected it had happened to me.  

Just as if I had consentual sex with a man on the first date and he ghosted me, I may purposely not sleep with the next man on the first date. 

No one likes being used, men or women.  

Post # 28
2118 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: March 2017

I’ve certainly never done that—no matter how broke and hungry I was. If we were both poor, we’d have McDonald’s and go to the $1 movie or we’d go to Twco Bell and split it. I let my husband pay for our first date and I offered to pay for the 2nd date. At the time, he had “real” job and I was a poor college student. 

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