Looking for clarity.

posted 2 years ago in Relationships
Post # 31
3971 posts
Honey bee

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beeyou10 :  a lot of emotional abusers are extremely charming individuals.  

Post # 32
1414 posts
Bumble bee

Agree with the PP about if you ever had children how it would be awful for them. If he cares so little for anyone other than himself then just imagine the eventual emotional trauma that his behaviour will cause them. No mother would want that for her kids, let alone herself.

This is not a marriage that anyone would want. This is not a husband that anyone would want.

Please don’t care what other people think, whether he is a “great guy” or you have only been married such a short time, blah, blah , blah. Life is waaayyyy to short for that nonsense. Go find some joy and respect with a supportive and loving person who cares about you and how you feel and wants to build a fulfilling and happy life together. 

Best of luck Bee with whatever you decide.

Post # 33
1943 posts
Buzzing bee

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beeyou10 :  I am so sorry that this is happening to you. I think the bees are right on this, your relationship will not end well, if you stay. 

Your husband does what he pleases, regardless of your opinions and feelings. Any suggestion on your part to make decisions together ends in his getting angry and telling you that you don’t support him. He says cruel things to you and then blatantly lies about it. He knows what he said, he knows what he did. He has always known. This is what scares me about your relationship – your husband is capable of doing and saying anything, because it is clear he is out for himself and is willing to do anything to get what he wants. I already assumed there was another woman in the picture before you said anything, I think your gut is right that there’s something about this woman, and I would bet a lot of money that he’s carrying on a sexual relationship with her, probably since September. I wouldn’t be surprised if that was partly what was behind his ‘divorce’ commentary, and why he is acting especially cruel to you now. 

The fact that he can admit things he has said or done in therapy is chilling – he’s been coldly lying to you for a long time, without remorse. Admitting the truth now is merely a way to get what he wants again – to stop going to therapy. The only way to stop is to either leave you or make you believe he has changed. If he is planning on staying married to you while he cheats or does whatever he wants, it works in his favor to go to counseling now so you get off his back, but rest assured he will not be changing. This is a means to an end. 

Also, as other people have mentioned, those people who lack empathy or who are abusive are often well-liked. People didn’t believe Ted Bundy was a serial killer either…those who are abusive wouldn’t be able to be if they weren’t good at hiding it. Your husband is charismatic and good at getting his way because he has worked to be that way, it suits him, and don’t expect him to change his entire lifestyle because of a few months in therapy. 

I am so sorry, but your best bet is to leave before you have any children and you become even more entangled. It seems like you have a good group of friends who support you, and that will make a big difference. 

Post # 34
1301 posts
Bumble bee

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beeyou10 :  Narcissism is a spectrum. Soicippathy being at the far end and you may be turning up more extreme case examples in your searches.  You’re likely unintentionally minimizing the ways in which or to what degree he is presenting as a narcissist himself.  Perfect clarity is hard when you’re right in the middle of a situation, have attachments, a shared history, some remenants of your idea of a future together, etc..  But to us in this thread that are on the outside, there are some pretty severe indicators already. 

I have found myself in close relationships with narcissists before (mostly platonic) and for me it just needs to be thought of clinically and practically.  They can’t change.  Even if they want to (or say they do) there is no muscle memory without empathy and they will fail.  They may be able to go through the motions for some amount of time or in some isolated situations but ultimately  you cant get blood from a rock.  You can appreciate them for the good parts, and value the good times you did share or things you learned from/through them but realize the relationship is untenable and WILL damage you and you must walk away from it.

Post # 35
5114 posts
Bee Keeper

Your husband’s behavior is sppalling. I don’t know how you have managed to stay with him this long. I don’t hold out any hope for counseling in this case. You really, really need to get away from him and out of this pale imitation of a marriage. Leave him to his true desire, tv and football. And for the love of God, don’t get pregnant. He wouldn’t be any better at fatherhood than he is as a husband.

Post # 36
2772 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: October 2017

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beeyou10 :  If you had come on here before you got married, everyone would have advised against getting married to this man. Now you are married, and you’re starting to see how you enabled and overlooked extreme behaviors that make your husband an undesirable partner. I wouldn’t stay married to such a man. If you’re planning on kids, what happens if you go into labor during a college game? Or one of your children has a recital or important event during one? What happens if you or a family member gets sick during one? What if a loved one dies around that time? Yor husband has an unbelievably unhealthy, patently ridiculous, utterly absurd, costly obsession with college football. Can you continue to live with that?

Post # 37
10220 posts
Sugar Beekeeper

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ysel :  

and we as ladies know how other ladies can be..” And of all  the details and insights and analyses of this man’s  behaviour and OP’s  careful self analysis  and responses you think this ‘blaming the ( not even remotely proven)  Other Woman’ nonsense is a key issue?    

Post # 38
143 posts
Blushing bee

God men are so stupid. Making you believe that the things he says are not true is emotional abuse. You have to stand your ground.

Some people tend to get mean in these threads but until you’ve been in these types of situations you don’t have any idea how hard it is to leave. It’s not a simple breakup when you have a manipulative partner. It doesn’t sound like he’s making you happy but if you think the relationship can be salvaged then give it a try. I think you deserve better though.

Post # 39
1086 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: December 1969

You had me at ‘the good outweighed the bad’ before you even got married.  

We’re talking about a life partner, father to any possible children, who will hold your hair while you throw up and make a day all about you.  I think you married your buddy, you didn’t marry a partner.  It’s his way or the highway and I have no idea what else he has to do to prove that to you.  Maybe therapy will help, maybe separation, but he is not a partner and you have to realize this.

Post # 40
1318 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: October 2019

Imagine being 110 looking back on your life, is this the life you want? Is this the partner you want? Is this the relationship you want to raise other humans in? Would you ask for a do over? Would you have regrets?

At 110 it doesn’t matter what your family thought of your relationship. What your friends thought! How good of an actress you were at hiding your inner turmoil. You can’t trick yourself!

At the end of time the only one responsible for your happiness and how you live your life is you! 

We can all start over at anytime. We just have to decide. You have this one life it’s to short to spend being anything less than happy! 

Wanting to leave is enough! 

Post # 41
1056 posts
Bumble bee

Your story reminds me really strongly of an ex-boyfriend I had. His obsession was (and to the best of my knowledge) still is, online gaming, rather than college football, but the principles are the same.

He missed so many events, so many experiences because he would rather be holed up at home gaming than experiencing them with me. That was crushing enough in itself. But it was a symptom of a far bigger problem and that was chilling emotional coldness and selfishness. I remember sobbing uncontrollably because of some particularly cutting, awful thing he had said and he would look at me as if he was looking at a specimen in a jar – no emotion, no empathy, no remorse. I lost track of the number of times he simply walked away from me, shut his bedroom door and locked it so that he didn’t have to deal with the upset he had caused.

He too would hold our relationship hostage over very minor things and tell me that it was over and that he couldn’t “deal with” me when he had once again reduced me to tears with needlessly cruel behaviour and words.

When he wanted to, he could be extremely charming, warm and likeable. He’s very good looking too, and he’s able to reel women in with relative ease.

Onto your situation: I have a hard time believing that his promises in therapy to change and put you and your relationship first are sincere. I think these are brought about by the threat of losing you and your marriage. Personally, I think his efforts will be temporary at best. To be clear: people like this behave much better in front of people whom they respect, whose opinions matter to them, and who they think can do something for them. This is often the way with selfish men.

He respects the therapist; that is why he is vowing to her that he will change. He wants to be seen to be the good guy who is turning over a new leaf and trying to save his marriage.

He does not respect you. I agree with a PP that he holds you in a certain amount of contempt. It’s terrible, but his actions prove this. I would not expect this to change just because he has a few sessions of therapy and takes you on a weekend away. Men like this often do not respect the woman who loves them, puts up with their bullshit, stays with them, etc.

I wouldn’t stay; I would have left a long time ago because I have been through all this nonsense of being treated worse than a second class citizen in a relationship and having my feelings, desires, special occasions, etc. not matter a damn to the person I was with. I wouldn’t tolerate it for one second knowing what I know now, and life really is too short.

I can assure you that if you do stay, and he continues to treat you this way, your feelings towards him will change. In a few short years, you will no longer love him. Your love for him will dry up and you will resent what he has put you through and the time he has taken from you. You might even pity him. That is no kind of marriage.

If you do stay (and as I said, I would not), you must have iron clad boundaries around the way he treats you. Name-calling, yelling, swearing, lying about things he has said are absolutely forbidden. He must be prepared to listen to your feelings, compromise, apologise and go 50/50 on things like holidays, birthdays, special occasions, etc. Lay it all on the line for him and don’t hold back or apologise about the treatment you require. If he’s serious about changing, have a zero tolerance policy for his bullshit.

My guess is that he will not be able to meet these standards and will backslide. If he does, you must leave because you seem way too lovely to spend your life in this miserable way. There are amazing, loving, considerate guys out there.

Post # 42
1473 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: August 2019

Bee, this man is abusive and narcissistic. Normally I would suggest therapy, however it is a BAD idea to go to couples counselling with an abuser. They will use everything they find out to manipulate you and abuse you further.

I saw you are going to individual counselling – that is a great idea. Please work with your individual counsellor on an exit plan. The longer you stay, the more your self-esteem will suffer, and the harder it will be to leave. I wish for you to have all the strength you need to leave this abuse behind.

Post # 44
1583 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2017 - A vineyard

I’m sorry 🙁 He sounds like a huge jerk at minimum… You know what I say when my husband tells me I said or did something that hurt him, even if I don’t remember? (And the not remembering part is pretty common, memory like swiss cheese. The part that isn’t common is the hurting his feelings part) I say. I’m sorry. I was wrong to do x thing and then endeavour to NOT do whatever it was again because I am not interested in hurting my husband or gaslighting him.

I wish you strength to find the right solution  for YOU in all this.

Post # 45
72 posts
Worker bee

Such an unhealthy relationship. You know what you need to do, this divorce should have happened months ago!

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