Looking for clarity.

posted 2 years ago in Relationships
Post # 76
Member
5120 posts
Bee Keeper

Good lord, what a pig. Tell him you’ll do anal if he does……with you wearing giant strap-on.

I say get your own place. It will feel nice to have something that’s just your own. You’ll still have the support of your friends and family.

Post # 77
Member
2338 posts
Buzzing bee

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beeyou10 :  I don’t think I can help with a why, but I can share my own bizarre stories of when I broke up with my narcissist ex in my mid 20’s. 

We lived together and we had to continue living together until I could find my own place. One day, he would nicely offer to help me find a place, be calm and rational and kind. The next, he would be cold and silent and burst out in tears, calling me a whore because I had made plans to go out with friends that upcoming weekend. 

Expect extremes. One minute being sweet and trying to get you to have sex, the next erupting in rage and calling you names and trying to make you feel bad about yourself. 

Once I found a place, he and his dad kindly helped me move. I’m 5’1, 100 lbs and it saved me a lot of money on movers. I thought there was a chance we could stay friends.

A few weeks later, he held the few belongings I’d left at his place hostage in an attempt to get me to take him back. I had to contact his family to intervene on my behalf.

A few weeks after that, he attempted to STEAL my dog from our mutual friend’s house. They were dog sitting for me, and weren’t expecting him. He stopped by, saw my dog, and picked it up to leave. My friend called me in hysterics and I could hear her husband and my ex yelling in the background. I had to threaten him with police action and our friends had to threaten to stop being friends with him before he finally put the dog down and left. 

A few weeks after that, I received an email with an attached certified letter, and the same letter to both my home and my PLACE OF WORK, that he intended to sue me for “our” dog. It was on attorney’s letterhead. He didn’t include any REASON why he should have any rights to a dog I bought on my own, with my own money, and for whom I paid all vet bills. But he intended to sue me. I ignored it and he never sued.

By that point, we hadn’t talked in months. He suddenly called me one day to chat in a friendly fashion to tell me he was moving to Costa Rica. He’s been there ever since. 

There just really is no understanding the behavior of narcissists. They don’t live in the same world we live in. They don’t operate by the same rules. To them, other people don’t really exist. We are just extensions of them. So they don’t need to be consistent over time so that other people feel safe with them. To them, other people don’t exist, so who cares if they are able to cultivate friendships? Their behavior isn’t driven by the same things OURS is driven by – self-expression, and desire to fit in. They ONLY have the self-expression. They have zero desire to truly fit in and be like others. They are better than other people, so why should they either try to be like them, or strive to be liked and accepted by them?

So ALL of their actions are driven by self interest. Pure self interest. If you’re being “good” (ie, not actively talking about moving out, breaking up, etc) they will literally pretend that everything is normal and treat you “well” in an attempt to get you to conform to their will and “go back to normal.” I think THEY truly think this could work. “If I just don’t bring it up, and am nice to her, she will forget about this whole ‘breaking up thing.'”

But if you’re being BAD (asserting your intentions to leave), they basically throw temper tantrums, because they’re used to getting their way with you. They’re used to at least THINKING that have control over you, and all they want in life is to get that control back. So they just switch from tactic to tactic to tactic to try and see if any of them will get you back under their thumb.

It seems manic and crazy from a normal person’s POV, but to them, they’re, like, trying different ways to train a dog. Like, oh, positive reinforcement didn’t work, let’s try hitting it on the nose with a rolled up newspaper. Oh, that didn’t work, let’s try the positive reinforcement again. Oh, that STILL didn’t work? Annoying. Let’s try kicking it. 

Post # 80
Member
517 posts
Busy bee

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beeyou10 :  did you know he was like this before you married him? 

Post # 82
Member
11278 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: City, State

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beeyou10 :  

Congratulations on your awakening, Bee!  How wonderful that you reached this awareness so early on and did not waste your entire lifetime or bring children into the world with such a defective father.

If you haven’t yet, you may want to do some reading about narcissism. The legal profession is one that draws a lot of people who are high in narcissistic traits.

If he does have one of the low/no conscience personality disorders (narcissism is in that category), trying to make sense of his behavior will be an enormous energy drain on you.

They are hopeless when it comes to treatment. The most recent studies are showing that many of the low/no conscience PDs (known as Cluster Bs in the DSM V) have brains that are structurally different and biochemically different from normals.

Any research you do going forward might best be aimed at self defense. It’s concerning that thoughts are popping into your head about your physical safety. You may want to tune into that when you can find a quiet space. If you can focus your attention on your solar plexus and really tap into it, you will find it won’t lie to you.

While I am happy that you will be in individual counseling, I side eye your therapist. She should never have agreed to see you and your stbx together. This is never, ever ok when there is any whiff of abuse. Your husband is very abusive. A therapist properly educated in the various manifestations of abuse would have referred one of you out to another therapist with a future couples session as an eventual goal. 

I hope at some point you feel strong enough to consider other possibilities for your future work in therapy.

People like your stbx do a staggering amount of internal damage. And they can get it done in a short amount of time. Models of efficiency, they are. You may want to consider the possibility that you are struggling with some PTSD. You had many very hard landings with this guy.

Just to foam the runway a bit for his next completely predictable move.  If he’s contacting people about you, his motive is to convert them into his own private Flying Monkeys, ie his enablers. He has to convince them that he is a hapless victim.  Nothing is his fault.

This tees up Stage Two: the Smear Campaign.  Brace yourself.  If you allow it to affect you, you’ll end up far more spun out than ever before. He will heap lie upon lie upon lie on anyone who will listen to him.

One bright spot; he won’t last long without a steady source of Narcissistic Supply. A good chunk of his energy will be tied up identifying and grooming your replacement.

Do not take it personally. If a rattlesnake bites you, would you take that personally or would you recognize that biting is just what rattlesnakes do?

Oh, honey.  You are nowhere near ready to think about red flags in future relationships.There is much healing work yet to be done. When you have integrated this entire experience and emerge healthy and whole, guys like your stbx won’t appeal to you. Your radar will be working properly.

I know you will have lonely feelings, but try to just sit with those for now. It will all pass. Starting new relationships now will be  risking retraumatizing yourself. Instead, lean on the people who love you that you know you can trust.

I am truly sorry for all you have been through. You have the power to emerge better and far happier than before. 

Post # 83
Member
3906 posts
Honey bee

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beeyou10 :  I could talk for hours about this subject.  My therapy bills will show you that!

After finally getting the divorce finalized, my number one goal was to make sure I didn’t repeat the same mistake again.

First of all, trust your gut, even when your heart is telling you the opposite.  Was he super charming at first and complimented you and showed affection?  Then all of a sudden when you don’t notice his hair cut, he treats you like you’ve committed a cardinal sin?  

And we stay when they start treating us badly because we remember the beginning when they are on their best behavior and so sweet and so loving and we hope to get back to that point.  Guess what?  You never get back to that point.

Second thing…that charm and all of those compliments they give you when they first meet you?  That’s called love bombing.  They will tell you whatever they want in order to hook you in.  Normal guys will play it cool in the beginning to not seem too aggressive.  They aren’t going to talk about marriage or the future in the first couple of months because they need to get to know you.

i highly recommend continuing therapy and reading “Attached:  the new science of adult attachment…”  it’s a very helpful read.

and trust your gut!  You knew, I knew it, but for they tear you down so much that you lack the confidence to walk away for so long…

 

 

Post # 84
Member
1433 posts
Bumble bee

My only adivce to you now is is that you document everything. I would not put it anything past this man. Sever all the threads that tie you to him in any way, shape or form. Don’t engage and keep communication clinical and to a minimum. Don’t see him alone.

He only thinks of himself as he has so aptly demonstrated. Even in the thick of all that was going on he only worried about his sexual wants, his future dating and how he now appears to others since you have left him. Your feelings meant nothing to him during your marriage and if it is possible,  which I doubt, they mean even less now.

In all likelihood he may spread lies about you to friends and family to make himself look good and he may even threaten you because you have bruised his ego. 

Surround yourself with support, keep up with the therapist and get a good lawyer.

We are all super proud of you bee. What you have done takes courage. Welcome to a new life.

Post # 85
Member
3906 posts
Honey bee

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beeyou10 :  I also want to point out that my sister and mom display narcissistic traits, so it seemed very familiar to me when it happened with my exH.  Which is probably a big reason why I stayed for so long.  I thought it was normal.

 

Post # 87
Member
1890 posts
Buzzing bee

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beeyou10 :  So that explains something. It seems like your father might have some unhealthy tendencies, which is why you ignored the red flags for so long. You are used to them. 

Post # 88
Member
3906 posts
Honey bee

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beeyou10 :  you probably saw it happening with your parents and thought it was normal…

You will continue to peel back the layers of this onion.  It’s almost 6 years since we separated, 5 since the divorce and I still look back and realize new things.  

Post # 90
Member
2147 posts
Buzzing bee
  • Wedding: City, State

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beeyou10 :  Checking in on you, Bee. How are things going with getting your apartment? 

Your story rings so true to me, everything from being in law school and rationalizing that things would be different after real life kicked in… to the marriage only lasting about 8 months post-graduation when I realized the true depth of his crazy and that it couldn’t be fixed. I made the mistake of marrying after my first year of law school. Had I waited until I’d been out in the world for a year, I would have seen more and known better. 

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