Moral Stand Against Marriage

posted 2 weeks ago in Legal
  • poll: Would you stay in a relationship without marriage if you had the same legal rights as marriedcouple?
    No, marriage is marriage and is important to me. : (53 votes)
    71 %
    Yes, if my partner was morally opposed, but willing to sign paperwork to give me the same protection : (18 votes)
    24 %
    Other - in comments : (4 votes)
    5 %
  • Post # 2
    Member
    8279 posts
    Bumble Beekeeper

    So long as it was an official document filed with the local municipality (similar to a marriage certificate) that afforded all the same legal rights and protections as marriage I don’t really care what it’s called. Particularly for couples who don’t opt for a religious ceremony anyways I wouldn’t see any practical difference.

    Post # 3
    Member
    1294 posts
    Bumble bee

    Marriage is important to my fiancé and me from a religious perspective, but as an attorney in the US, this is a fascinating idea. It will make it much easier for the courts to move matters along in terms of division of property if the rules apply more universally.

    If the AIP were a thing where I lived, and my partner happened to be morally opposed to marriage, I would be okay knowing our rights would be established. I’d likely still insist on him signing a document to establish the time at which we began living in “a relationship of interdependence”. I wouldn’t want the added hassle of still needing to go to court to establish rights. 

    How will this apply to wills/estates/powers of attorney? If you’re designated as an AIP, would you have the rights of a spouse in that regard, too? 

    Post # 5
    Member
    6556 posts
    Bee Keeper
    • Wedding: February 1997

    I’ve always believed the US should have/issue domestic partnerships (with all the legal rights of marriage) and leave anything religious (including the term “marriage” itself) to other institutions. If that’s what this is (state defined and recognized “marriage “), then I’m all for it. 

    Post # 6
    Member
    2904 posts
    Sugar bee
    • Wedding: July 2011

    Lots of points of view on this one.

    im in the UK and recent law changes means that both marriage and civil partnerships are open to both hetero and homosexual couples.

    i personally don’t think cohabiting couples should have the same legal rights as married / civil partnered couples for a few reasons.

    1) if you want those rights you can chose to get them, they are not denied you

    2) how do you date these relationship? Is it from move in date? What about years beforehand? What if your relationship started prior to you being 18? 

    3) what happens if you don’t want those rights. They were talking here about giving cohabiting couples the right to opt out but as I said to my husband (he was boyfriend at the time) that required us to legally register our relationship before we were ready to legally register our relationship.

     

    As for your other question. If my partner was opposed to marriage but was willing to enter into a civil partnership that would be ok by me as it gives the same legal protections, it’s just semantics really. I personally don’t understand why you’d be opposed to marriage but ok with a civil partnership but that’s me. 

    Post # 7
    Member
    559 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: August 2014

    As someone with no legal knowledge, so unable to speak to that side of it (and also in Alberta!), I would be okay with a legal partnership. My husband and I have been married for 5+ years, but we had a non-religious ceremony (just met the legal requirements for the province, didn’t add any extra readings etc), and basically considered it a legal joining with a big party. I like being married for the ‘solidness’ it gives the relationship, if something else provided those benefits I would be fine with it. However, it would be interesting to see how the rest of society thought about it. How would you refer to each other to indicate your legal status? Would you need to come up with a ‘more official’ term than partner? Would people take it seriously if you had signed legal documents but weren’t ‘married’? I sort of picture it ending up like a ‘non religious’ marriage in the end really…

    Post # 10
    Member
    813 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: October 2019

    Personally I’m sick of seeing people constantly trying to reinvent the wheel simply to make people feel better about their choices. I strongly feel that this desire to re-define marriage or even redefine what being single means comes from insecurity and embarrassment. 

    marriage as it stands is as religious or nonreligious as you want. You control the ceremony and can even do a courthouse wedding with zero religion at all. It already does everything legally that is needed. So why do people spin their wheels trying to avoid such a simplified process for a more complex one? So they can say they aren’t technically married? So stupid. 

    Someone says they don’t believe in marriage? I honestly have never ever heard a person who believes that, explain it so it made sense. Because it doesn’t make sense. Especially if your going around putting legal documents in place to do the exact same thing that marriage does while avoiding the title “married”? What is the point of that at all? 

    – you don’t believe in marriage because you aren’t religious. Ok so do it at the courthouse or don’t have a religious ceremony. 
    – you don’t believe in marriage because you don’t like the government involvement. So then you wouldn’t go get legal documents to cover anything anyways because that’s also the government being involved. 
    – you don’t believe in being married. The people who truly believe that wouldn’t ever get legally married or get legal documents signed because they don’t believe in tying yourself to another person in anyway shape or form. 

    This all reminds me of when a celebrity makes a big deal of trying to explain their relationship status. Like Emma Watson most recently saying she was “self-partnered”. Ughh like why? If your happy being single and loving it why do you need to go reinvent what you call it? Because you feel embarrassed and are trying to spin it to make yourself feel better. Someone happy being single says just that. I’m happy being single. I don’t want a relationship right now I am content as is. 

    or when Ansel Elgort said he wanted an open relationship with his girlfriend, so he could go “make friendships with other women, but not be sexual with them, but be in love with them”. WHAT? So he basically found the stupidest way possible to say he wanted to have more female friends in his life? Or is trying to make cheating sound somehow ok? 

    I’ve just had enough of this type of garbage. And for me? I just got married because I want to build a family with someone who chose me and I chose him, openly and to the world. To me that shows that two people are proud to be with each other, are deciding to build something together. For me it isn’t so religious, it’s more about feeling loved and chosen, and being a unit. A man who didn’t want to marry me for whatever reason he came up with would translate to me as he wasn’t sure I was worth it, didn’t really love me, wasn’t proud to have the world know I was his chosen person, and wanted to keep his options open. No thank you to that. 

    Post # 11
    Member
    541 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: June 2017

    So- I was “anti marriage” until everyone can “get married” (in the US).  My (now) husband was respecful of that, and we lived (with our first child) unmarried for a while until the marriage equality act was affirmed by the supreme court.  At that time, I agreed I would get married (without religious affiliation…I was kind of anti that too), and we did (and read an excerpt from the decision by Justice Kennedy at our wedding). 

    I guess to my point- I was unwilling to enter into anything until the federal law was changed. Unfortunately, in the US, the state laws (which are of course overruled much of the time by federal laws) still lag with marriage and divorce situations, but I felt like at least there was a better chance of equality- and that was more important to me than the legal partnership with my husband.

    Post # 12
    Member
    9586 posts
    Buzzing Beekeeper
    • Wedding: August 2012

    If you don’t believe in the religious aspect of marriage then get married at the courthouse or have a judge do the ceremony (that’s what we did).

    Like pp said this seems like a lot of extra steps when you could just sign a document and be married, and have all those same rights anyway. What’s the point? To say “well actuuuuuuuuuuually we aren’t married.” I don’t get it.

    Post # 13
    Member
    2905 posts
    Sugar bee

    I don’t really see a difference between going to the courthouse and signing a marriage certificate vs. an AIP.  Is the AIP federally recognized?  Or is it similar to civil unions prior to same sex marriage act where it was only recognized on a state by state basis?  

    Obviously there are tax benefits in the US when you are married and your spouse automatically becomes your next of kin.  In essence, you could decide not to get married and then just make sure to name your SO as your POA, Medical POA, add him in the will, etc.  At least in the US the laws have already changed regarding healthcare and you don’t need to be married.  

    I have been married and I’ve been divorced and I’m currently engaged and beginning to plan a wedding.  I do want to be married to him, but I can see how it would be tempting to sign and AIP instead, mostly if you don’t care about the religious aspect of marriage.

    Post # 15
    Member
    8279 posts
    Bumble Beekeeper

    @sharpshooter  *sometimes* there are tax benefits. Our system is designed for a 1950s family arrangement with one breadwinner. My husband and I ended up paying more total federal income tax once we were married than we did as two singles. Bit of a bummer but not enough to pursuade us from getting married! 

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