Morbid post: how do you deal with the idea of death?

posted 12 months ago in Emotional
Post # 46
Member
1471 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2019

tiffanybruiser :  Why would God get blamed for a flood? And I never said Satan has MORE power. Just that sin and goodness have EQUAL control over us, which is why there is so much evil in the world today, because evil is easy and tempting. Even little evils, like lying, or bigger evils, like cheating on your husband – it’s tempting, but very real, and has real consequences.

Remember the movie Bruce Almighty? When God says Bruce can do anything EXCEPT mess with free will? It’s exactly like that. We have free will. Free will is “free” because it is always able to switch back and forth between Satan and God – and God doesn’t control it. He doesn’t WANT to, because he doesn’t want us to be puppets. He wants us to love him because we want to, not because we have to. 

Why must we blame ANYONE for a flood? Floods happen. They’re not an effect of evil, they’re an effect of nature. The Northeast is getting pounded at the very second and a town nearby called Marathon is flooded in feet of water. Why must we blame someone? And especially God, who, like, seriously, isn’t just sitting there laughing at us as we flounder in water. Does anyone really, seriously believe he’s doing that? 

Take your one survivor in a flood. We would call that a miracle, not because God pointed at that one particular person and said “YO PEEPS I WANT HIM TO LIVE AND NO ONE ELSE” – we call it a miracle because nature is fkn scary and he managed to survive, on his own, just because he was 2 seconds from being killed by a huge wave. That’s a miracle, not because God wanted him to live and no one else, but because he surpassed nature at incredible odds. 

Post # 47
Member
10033 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: September 2012

People, just believe whatever makes you the most happy and brings you the most comfort.  Don’t put down other’s beliefs.  It’s pointless to try to argue someone in or out of their faith.  It’s pointless to try to prove or disprove the existence of God.

Nothing anyone could ever do or say could ever take away my faith in God because it is too deep and too personal and brings more joy into my life than anything else ever has or ever will.  But, do I really care to argue with anyone about what is deeply personal to me?  Nope. 

I know God, and I know He works in mysterious ways that no human mind can understand completely.  Faith and desire to know God comes first and so-called “proof” then comes with faith.  At one point in my life, before I was a believer, I deeply desired to know God personally, with all of my heart and soul, and He honored my request to know Him.  It has nothing to do with any doctrine or church or anything like that, it is a personal relationship that gives me hope, has protected me, healed me, guided me and brought me from hell to a wonderful life that I now lead. 

For me, “not believing” in God doesn’t make sense to me, it’s like denying reality.  I feel fortunate and grateful to have been given the gift of faith because it has made my life more meaningful than I ever imagined it could be.

But, all of that said, do I judge anyone for not having faith or believing in God?  Not at all.  If atheism or agnosticism brings a person happiness, hope, love, peace, comfort, and joy then that is wonderful, too.  My personal belief is as long as your belief doesn’t cause harm to another person and makes you a better person, then that’s great.

Post # 48
Member
152 posts
Blushing bee
  • Wedding: October 2016

megm1099 :  Do you really know that many people who whine about God while only spreading hate? It seems logical that the people who would be upset with God not intervening would be those that care and are already doing what they can. But God is supposed to be all powerful, so he should certainly be able to do more than you or I. 

 

Didn’t God create everything, including floods? Are you saying he has no control over nature? Then why do Christian’s praise God when a natural disaster doesn’t kill anyone or everyone it could have? That’s always been an issue for me with religion. Christian’s will pray and send you good thoughts all day long but if you die then it was just “Gods plan” and if you get better than that means God heard their prayers and saved you. But wait, I thought God doesnt intervene? Didnt it ever occur to you to logically think things through and realize maybe there’s a little to much convenience and explaining things away by twisting them around? 

Post # 49
Member
7904 posts
Bumble Beekeeper

Why wouldn’t God get blamed for a flood though? That’s my whole point; if he gets credit for “miracles” then why doesn’t he get credit when random horrible things happen too? It doesn’t make logical sense to me.

As for free will, is it really free will though if God knows every move we’ll ever make before we make it? He’s all knowing right? When he created me, he could foresee every sin I’d ever commit. He put that plan in action. This means God deliberately creates some people with the knowledge that he will eventually doom them to hell. Why!?

He wants us to love him because we want to, not because we have to. 

Except we kind of do have to love him, by his rules, or we’ll end up in hell. And anyway, why does he need our love? Was he just bored and lonely up there and decided to create humans so there’d be people to love him? 

And why create hell? As with the Mark Twain quote, why preach about forgiving 70 times 70 in the Bible, then create hell and doom anyone who doesn’t love him properly to eternity in flames? Seems like a bit of a double standard eh??

Post # 50
Member
950 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: December 1969 - City, State

This is from Ram Dass, Going Home:

A lot of the fear that death generates leads to denial.

Death does not have to be treated as an enemy for you to delight in life.

Keeping death present in your consciousness as one of the greatest mysteries and as the moment of incredible transformation imbues this moment with added richness and energy that otherwise is used up in denial.

To me, death is a moment of transition.  I accept it as part of this journey, and my spirituality and connectivity to this earth gives me the comfort of knowing that death is not final.  I hope that when my time comes, I’m able to let go of what is, and continue on.  

Post # 51
Member
1471 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2019

spearmint :  Oh now we’re getting into the nitty-gritty of differences between Catholicism and broad Christianity, and I can’t speak for a huge majority, but I’ll do my best 🙂 

For your point about nature, yes, I think God has limited ability to control nature. I do. I think that if he wanted to change everything he’s ever done, then he could control more, but it would kill us and I’m not sure he wants to do that 🙂 For example, if the Earth was just a LITTLE closer to the Sun or a LITTLE further from the Sun, we would be dead. Not even like a little dead, life would disappear. Science has proven this,and Venus and Mars are obvious shows of that anyway. 

Earth hangs in the most delicate balance. I like referring to Bruce Almighty because it kinda has several good points, so I’ll stick with that. Remember when Bruce brought the moon closer to the Earth and all the tides were killing people? Actually, scientifically, if he had brought it that much closer to Earth, we would probably ALL die in just tsunamis that wipe out a lot of people. 

I don’t think God wants that either. 

Now why would he make Earth so delicate? Who knows. He could change the entire universe to make it less delicate, but he obviously doesn’t want to. Why? Who knows? And I’m not even going to pretend like I have all the answers. XD But yes, God has limited ability to control nature (as long as he wants to keep us alive). 

Now, as far as the “hearts and flowers” type of Christians, I’m not one of them. I never have been. I’m not going to say, “Sending thoughts and prayers” and then preach that someone dying (before their time) is “God’s plan” – I’ve never been that type. I work in pharmaceuticals BECAUSE I want to help cure cancer. That’s my #1 goal in life. But to be honest, I don’t know many Christians who say all this “God’s plan” stuff. Dying before your time SUCKS. It just SUCKS. 

Your last bit of sarcasm at the end there I’m not going to cater to, but I will mention that “twisting things around” is a little sensationalist here. I’m not backing down on anything I’m saying, and I’m going forward with details that don’t contradict anything I’ve said. 

 

Post # 52
Member
229 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: October 2015

tiffanybruiser : This.

 

In any other relationship if we were told we have to love them or suffer the consequences we’d know that to be abusive. It makes God seem like some egomaniac, to need to create an entire world dedicated to worshipping him while also knowing at the same time every move they’ll ever make, every suffering act that will ever come to be. He created people who were responsible for slavery, the holocaust, etc. Why wouldn’t he be at fault? And the kicker for me is no matter what you do, literally anything….  no matter how evil it is, can be forgiven and you can still go to heaven as long as you’re really sorry. Yet the poor children in third world countries who die of disease and dont know christ? Yep they’re going straight to hell. What kind of psychopath with the power to do anything would choose to create a world like this? No. Just no. 

Post # 53
Member
229 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: October 2015

megm1099 :  Science has also proven that there was never a worldwide flood that the Bible described.

 

I can almost wrap my head around believing in a higher power. But when it comes to believing in the Bible I just lose faith in the common sense abilities of the person I’m speaking to. The Bible was created by man and it literally makes no sense, its nasty, and there is a lot of fucked up shit in it. It’s hardly the kind of teaching that I would want to live my life on. I believe the world would be a much better place without religion. 

Post # 54
Member
1471 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2019

daysgoneby :  Hey, I’m with you. A huge majority of the Bible makes zero sense. Catholicism is not a Bible-driven faith like Protestantism is. We read the Bible and learn from it, mainly the New Testament, but we don’t consider it as central to our faith as others do.

Especially under JPII and Francis, we have become far more scientific and realistic. And, as a scientist, I can continue to appreciate that. 

I think Einstein said it best. I forget the direct quote, but he said SOMETHING like, “We use science to understand God, rather than God to understand science.” Something like that.

The Old Testament is so bloody OLD that we struggle to apply it to our current society. We’re not gonna go around stoning prostitutes, lol. We only keep the Old Testament, these days, for reference, so we don’t lose sight of the prophecies, prayers, and greater men who came before Jesus, because some men were super epic, like Moses and Elijah.

Also, we don’t believe people who don’t know Christ are going to hell. We believe in Purgatory for a reason (which reminds me I should really ask a Jehovah’s Witness about that sometime). You should definitely educate yourself more on what Catholics believe, because 100% of the stuff you say is wrong (maybe not for Christians, but for Catholics) , and therefore is irrelevant to this conversation, since you are only talking to a Catholic. XD

Post # 55
Member
442 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: May 2017

fluffhead :  She has two pretty good books too. 

We recently dealt with the passing of a pet, my husband’s first pet. It was very sudden, like an hour between seeming fine and death. My husband is actually afraid of death and it shook him up a bit. I think it made him really think of his own morality.

I on the other hand blubbered like a baby and in between tears tried to lighten the situation with jokes. After the shock wore off I was more curious than anything, like why did it happen and just the vast unknown of afterlife.

Post # 56
Member
1001 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: July 2019

I don’t really fear or even think about my own death. I know everyone dies eventually and I don’t believe in an afterlife or anything of that sort. I do fear the deaths of my loved ones.

I studied Terror Management Theory a lot in undergrad and it made a lot of sense to me. It’s pretty fascinating stuff.

Post # 57
Member
372 posts
Helper bee

daysgoneby :  

Herein lies difference between the Quran and the Bible. The default state in Christianity is sin, thus babies need to be baptized and people need to confess or pray the sins away. Anyone who doesn’t know Christ goes to Hell as default.

In the Quran, the default state is blank slate/innocence. Everyone is born a Muslim (submitting to will of God) and if through no fault of their own they do not encounter the message of God, they go to heaven. If they do not have the mental capacity to make decisions whether they have mental deficiencies, too young, or non humans (animals/others), they die and go to heaven as default. 

Humans don’t inherit the sins of their ancestors (no concept of original sin) and only people are judged on things and decisions within their powers.

Divine justice covers the span of life on earth and hereafter. If you see suffering and injustice, its because you’re zoomed into a narrow point in the tapestry of life. I think most people are afraid of untimely death or being unprepared for dying, not death itself. Without death, we would not have the same urgency to do good and leave our legacy. Without suffering, we do not have the opportunity to display the extent of mercy and compassion. It’s all relative.

Post # 58
Member
372 posts
Helper bee

daysgoneby :  Without religion we would have lived under bloody reigns of emperors, pharoahs, mongols who are maniacs. Many religion grew side by side with rulers and slowly siphoned off powers from monarch/empires/sultanates and established checks and balances. Modern religions were also the first to establish writing/reading/science. Even amongst Egyptians and Hindus, reading/writing/knowledge were exclusive to priestly class. Priests and religions were important factors in the influence of politics, culture, and empires.

Post # 59
Member
1471 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: June 2019

Yeah, I don’t know any religion that believes innocent babies go right to hell, whether they know God or not. Christianity and Islam are on the same page about a TON of stuff. Infants or children die? They go right to heaven. Adults go to Purgatory, mainly just because we see adults as more prone to the whole “I can do whatever I want” mentality – and therefore usually do dumb stuff XD

I echo what Malayna said. It’s only natural to fear an unannounced death. 

Post # 60
Member
229 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: October 2015

megm1099 :  I don’t know what you’ve been taught about purgatory, but what I know of it says that it is pain for purification. In which case, that’s bullshit for innocent children to need any kind of cleansing that causes pain just to be in the presence of God. My inlaws are Catholic and they have told me in no uncertain terms that our children must be baptized to rid them of their original sin or they will go to hell. Is that not true? Just last week I was speaking with my SIL about a friend of mine who has recently converted to Buddhism and how I thought it was an interesting religion. She told me Christianity is the only true religion and that my friend is going to hell. I just dont have the desire to be around someone who is that small minded and arrogant to think her way is the only way and everyone else is damned to hell. I’m not saying you feel that way but this has been my experience with Catholics.

 

malayna :  That sounds like a much better religion in general. I could possibly get on board with something like that were I to choose a religion. The whole born evil with original sin and all the damnation is just too much for me. If there is a God, I just cant make myself believe that he is such a sadist like Christianity portrays with the original sin and hellfire. 

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