My Fiance wants me to sign a prenup.

posted 2 years ago in Relationships
  • poll: Would you ever sign a prenuptial agreement?
    Yes, everyone has the right to protect their stuff. : (342 votes)
    85 %
    Nope, If he insists there must be a prenup before a wedding, perhaps he isn’t the right guy for yo : (61 votes)
    15 %
  • Post # 196
    Member
    867 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: March 2010

    fredthebasil :  this is for you and a few others.

    I just want to chime in and say that not everyone who marries says the same vows you do. Me and my spouse did NOT say “until death do us part” or “for better or worse”

    please open your mind up and realize that not everyone believes divorce is not an option and not everyone believes that marriage is forever. Marriage comes in very many forms.

    Post # 197
    Member
    9130 posts
    Buzzing Beekeeper
    • Wedding: August 2013 - Rocky Mountains USA

    Lol at all the people speaking so stridently about divorce who have never even been married, let alone divorced. 

    Post # 198
    Member
    6806 posts
    Busy Beekeeper
    • Wedding: April 2016

    fredthebasil :  Yes it’s a choice that you can in no way say for certain that you will never choose. 

    Post # 199
    Member
    195 posts
    Blushing bee

    pinkshoes :  AND my point to the previous posters who kept ranting on about how she has absolutely no right to any of his assets, despite the possibility of being married for many years. I really don’t understand why some bees on here decide to gang up and advocate a particular point without further information. Given this update of hers it seems pretty alarming and selfish of him.

    She knows best.

    Post # 200
    Member
    625 posts
    Busy bee

    nifer317 :  okay fair enough, but based on OP’s stance that her fiance is being selfish, some of us took a leap of faith that she’s interested in the “til death do us part” type of marriage vows and our responses were tailored for her situation. Especially going off her update, it seems she and her fiance aren’t compatible. She wants to commit to him fully, he’s more committed to his family of origin and money/assets.

    Post # 201
    Member
    479 posts
    Helper bee

    pw067 :  Usually prenups purport to have every situation covered. She would engage a lawyer and he would engage a lawyer and they would negotiate like a commercial agreement. I think it is healthy, everyone’s on the same page and it should not be bashed so much. It’s not like if we split up you get nothing. Those kind of agreements can be set aside by courts anyway. 

    It is almost like giving up the right to bring a claim against his family assets and in return, usually, she would be given a lump sum of money, particularly more so in cases where she becomes financially dependent on him (eg when they have kids).

    It’s like..if we’re married for 2 years, you get X amount of money

    If we’re married for 5 years, you get X+Y amount of money

    If we’re married for 10 years, you get X+Y+Z amount of money…etcetc

    It’s not a simple one liner- you get nothing. Such an agreement is unfair and illegal (as in, it contradicts family law) and therefore can be set aside. 

    He didn’t build the family wealth, she didn’t build the family wealth, the family wealth was given to him by his parents for him only (and probably his kids)… she shouldn’t be able to take away anything from it. Also OP says the guy makes good money. If they manage their own wealth together, even when they break up she will be able to take a significant amount of money from his own money that he generated and if they have kids and she gives up her career, then he will be ordered to pay for her future needs anyway… 

    I would sign the prenup if i were her.

    At any event, rich people are smart and they have lawyers. If she refuses to sign the prenup the parents probably will be advised sign a loan agreement with their son and put caveat (if not registered mortgage) on the properties.

    Till death do us apart… if you are taking the leap of faith and love the man for who he is, then why not sign the prenup? It’s not like he is saying you get nothing. He’s saying, my parents built these assets and would not like his parents’ assets (fundamentally they’re his parents’ assets – he was just lucky enough to inherit them for free because he was born into the family) being touched in the event of a breakup. In such circumstances, prenup is a way to respect his parents and their hard work. 

    Post # 202
    Member
    479 posts
    Helper bee

    fredthebasil :  Put it this way – if she is so family oriented and believe that marriage will never end, till death do us apart…why not sign it? Prenups won’t mean anything as long as you don’t break up. You’re not going to get divorced anyway right? Just sign it. If it is such a huge deal breaker that he even brought up the topic, then break up and find someone else who is also against prenups or someone who is on par with herself financially. Unless she is digging, there’s no reason why she shouldn’t: 1. negotiate and sign the prenup and get on with wedding prep; 2. Break up and find someone else who also shares the same belief.

    And someone else mentioned that why should men be allowed to protect their assets while women get their salary taken away when they invested so many years in education. From OP’s post, the guy also seems to make good money himself and has invested in education himself. In the event of a break up, she will only benefit, prenup or no prenup. 

    She will also need to get a good lawyer to have the agreement negotiated and have the legal fees reimbursed by him. Prenups are void anyway if they haven’t sought independent legal advice. Speaking of selfish unreasonable agreements – just like all contract bargaining, everyone starts at the very top (in fact lawyers advise that) and slowly move towards the middle ground. 

    Post # 203
    Member
    6445 posts
    Bee Keeper
    • Wedding: February 1997

    Prenups are actually designed to protect BOTH parties in the event of a divorce. Before marriage, while love is still strong, both parties are interested not only in their own future, but also in the future and well-being of their intended. So as MrsJumboKappo mentioned, each party seeks independent counsel and they negotiate to get the best agreement for every possible scenario. A prenup does not automatically mean that one party gets all and the other gets nothing; it is a give and take depending on the assets, the years together, whether both spouses work, children, etc. 

    I am a big fan of prenups because good ones avoid the person who was married for two years taking half of their partner’s assets from before the marriage, but they also provide for and protect the spouse who has been there to help build that wealth for many years. 

    For as much as the OP may feel her Fiance is sounding selfish, he may think she’s sounding entitled. I believe it is important to provide for a spouse in the event of a breakup, but it is also important to keep a family business intact.

    Post # 204
    Member
    228 posts
    Helper bee
    • Wedding: June 2017

    I think that in the case of the family properties, I don’t see what’s wrong about him protecting it. However, I believe what assets are gained from both sides during a marriage should be split equally as it is only fair. I would definitely follow others’ advice about seeking legal advice just to be more familiar with everything and come to a decision you both feel comfortable making.

    Do not do or sign anything that you do not feel comfortable with no matter what.

    Post # 205
    Member
    625 posts
    Busy bee

    anabee323 :  You’re exactly right. Courts are there to make a fair decision based on the intention of marriage. They don’t have an agenda other than to uphold the commitment two people made to each other at one point. A prenup is literally asking one spouse (the lesser monied party) to waive their marital rights, rendering marriage a less significant commitment. It’s basically a rider countering the marriage contract. I do consider being married with a prenup being less married… “married lite” if you will. 

    Post # 206
    Member
    599 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: May 2017

    calliekalico2 :  I do consider being married with a prenup being less married… “married lite” if you will. 

    Well that’s rude.  A prenup doesn’t change anything DURING the marriage, so how does it make them any less married?

    And as for the ‘courts are there to make a fair decision based on the intention of marriage’, totally rubbish.  Alimony is a relic from a time when marriage by definition meant that a man was to provide for a woman, some people don’t want that from their marriage and chose to go in as self supporting adults and therefore should be self supporting after the relationship, if it does happen to break down.

    Marriages come in all forms, not everyone want 100% shared finances and that is up to them, it doesn’t make their commitment less significant, it makes it different.   

    Post # 207
    Member
    9828 posts
    Buzzing Beekeeper
    • Wedding: City, State

    calliekalico2 :  I’m sorry but this is all I could think of when you said that.

    Post # 208
    Member
    7002 posts
    Busy Beekeeper
    • Wedding: September 2012

    What always makes me laugh about these kinds of posts, is that if the OP was the one coming to the relationship with lots of family money or property and HER family wanted a prenup she’s probably be 100% for it. Denying a prenup makes you look like a gold-digger. They are not, and should not, be one sided. They are there to protect both parties, and anyone who enters a marriage thinking they are entitled to money or property their spouse (or their family) aquired prior to the relationship isn’t thinking about their relationship….they’re thinking about dollar signs.

    Post # 209
    Member
    1505 posts
    Bumble bee
    • Wedding: September 2015

     

    olliebear7 :  

    “However, this is what my fiance tells me, all earnings ,salaries, bonuses,pensions, stock or stock bonuses of eiter of us should remain the sole and separate property of the acquiring party. Obviously, this means that  all accumulation or purchases made during the marriage will be seen as separate property. 

    Regarding debt he says, that nothing changes obviously, you’ve been paying your debt on your own and that will continue after marriage as well but we will be separately liable for our debt , if any is incurred after marriage. 

    He also mentioned that should any of us die neither spouse neither party can make claim to others rental or personal property.”

    OHHHH-kay, WHOA, well this is what I get for posting before I’ve had time to read through the many pages of comments that have happened since the last time I was able to visit the thread. Wish these forums had a “View OP’s posts only” option.

    I could be dreaming but I thought your first update said your Fiance wanted the prenup to provide that you’ll still be “taken care of” if the marriage were to dissolve or something were to happen to him.  How does that jibe with the “ALL earnings are separate” and “cannot make claim on other party’s PERSONAL property” he is now proposing?  Because that sounds like he’s saying the prenup is to make sure you’re able to take care of yourself on your own…? How would a pre-nup, in the form that he is suggesting, make you more able to do it…?

    I’m no transactions lawyer but I don’t even know what the heck “but we will be separately liable for our debt , if any is incurred after marriage” means.  If you buy a homestead property together, how can you be separately liable for that debt…?

    Please get a full draft of this document in front of you today and then turn around and go to a lawyer.  I think it’s worth $100 – $200 to pay for a lawyer’s time to talk over this even if you end up having to shell it out yourself.  I think if this is what the document actually looks like, any lawyer you get would be violating her fiduciary duty to you if she recommended you sign it as-is. 

    Your Fiance sounds selfish and not very smart.  This is not how you get what you want.  Yes there is such a thing as “shooting for the moon” on the opening salvo and “you don’t ask you don’t get”, but there is also such a thing as negotiating in good faith.  Meaning you make your demands and counters in such a way that makes it clear that common ground is within reach.  Starting off at an extreme doesn’t do that.  This is a marriage he is contemplating so he should not be approaching it as regular adversarial business dealings with a complete stranger.  The way he’s doing it, even if you guys DO reach common ground, it’s still likely to leave a bitter taste in the mouths of all involved.

    Wow, just wow.  I believe that pre-nups are not planning for divorce, but when you do it in an adversarial way like your Fiance is, then you ARE getting into that category… I’m sorry bee.  If I were you I would start contemplating my options are (i.e. leave his selfish ass) should you guys reach an impasse over what the terms of the pre-nup should be.  

    Post # 210
    Member
    7002 posts
    Busy Beekeeper
    • Wedding: September 2012

    calliekalico2 :  I think there seems to be a misunderstanding by a lot of people about a prenup. A prenup isn’t a standard thing across the board. It’s different for every person/relationship and based on terms that a couple should come to together.

    Your thought that it’s basically asking one spouse to waive their marital rights just isn’t a logical way of looking at it. A prenup is based on whatever terms YOU set, not what some lawyer decides for you. There’s no reason one spouse has to waive any marital rights of anything they aquired together throughout their marriage…..and a good and fair prenup would reflect that. It’s the reason people put clauses about alimoney or spousal support in there in the event one spouse chooses not to work to raise children. No one’s spouse should be entitled to family property or investments they didn’t inherit or earn in the event of a divorce. 

    Are there assholes out there who try and get their spouse to sign unfair prenups? Of course, and I’d hope anyone in that situation is smart enough to consult their own seperate attorny to have it reviewed before signing. 

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