(Closed) Need some help… Follow up on not supposed to live together

posted 9 years ago in Christian
Post # 17
Member
168 posts
Blushing bee
  • Wedding: April 2013

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@runsyellowlites:  I totally get why they kicked her out of church. I don’t agree with the way it was handled. He could have said “she has chosen to live a non-Christian lifestyle.” Instead he was very specific that she was being sexual immoral and living with her boyfriend. I don’t think being a member of a church means you are giving permission for the pastor to share your personal life with everyone who happens to be in attendance! It wasn’t a meeting, it was a Sunday service open to guests and visitors.

Personally I think that churches should be more open to “spiritual marriages” i.e. if members are struggling and want to be together but can’t organize a legal wedding in time, why not bless a couple that is obviously in love and remove the guilt? God is not the state of Ohio, he does not absolve sin of premarital sex based on when a marriage license was filed. He knows our hearts and anyway there are people legally married who are not in a real marriage from a Christian perspective – e.g. using the partner for money or benefits, unknown infidelity, etc.

I am a very liberal Christian but because of my background I feel for these Christians who want to follow the rules 100% but find it too challenging. I remember one engaged couple at the church that found themselves alone in a room and said the woman literally ran out of the door and stood outside because they were so afraid of being physical. That makes no sense to me.

Post # 18
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5654 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: April 2011

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@shady_lane:  Eek! That definitely wasn’t handled appropriately which is sad because it easily discredits his right actions in expecting biblical living… especially with how we so often let offense dictate how we respond rather than keeping our hearts open to what God is trying to do.

Post # 19
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441 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: October 2012

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@runsyellowlites:  How is that what god is asking?  Isn’t the pastor asking them to do that?  Other pastors allow it, so it seems it is the human pastor making a judgement call, not god.  And isn’t god supposed to be making those decisions?  They could go to another pastor who would say it’s fine and then suddently they’d be following what god said?  I’m sorry, I just don’t understand.

Post # 20
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9940 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: September 2012

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@Cheeks225:   This is a great point.

I’m a Christian but I can certainly see why us Christians get a rap for being:  narrow-minded, behind the times, and obtuse, among other things.

Cheeks, You’ve brought up a valid point.  If she found another Pastor at another church, equally as Christian and equally as qualified as an officiant, who would not require them to live apart for 4 months, then all the sudden it would be “ok with God” that they live together, just because that Pastor says so?   Wth?

Post # 21
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5654 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: April 2011

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@Cheeks225:  Part of following God is submitting to spirtiual authority.. it is what He asks, or instructs, us to do. The OP made clear in her original post that this Pastor leads a church that is growing spiritually and that they respect him in is ability to teach and instruct according to God’s word… this is where God has “planted” the OP. SINCE we know that the pastor isn’t asking them to do something against God then we know that God would ask that we submit under his (the Pastor’s) authority. The only time God would istruct to not would be IF the pastor was teaching something that God makes clear he is agaisnt.

Nowhere in God’s word does he say he’s against teaching to not live together… infact there is more scripture to support that he IS against it (living together) than for it. (I said “support” b/c it doesn’t come out and say it word for word). So…. as part of growing closer to God I would advise to submit to the request of the pastor, her spiritual authority

If anything, you definitely don’t leave in offense. Because it doesn’t matter WHERE you go, all churches are led by men (as in humans) and every single one of them will at some point teach something or instruction something you (as in people as a whole) don’t agree with.

Post # 22
Member
9940 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: September 2012

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@runsyellowlites:   I follow God and I submit only to His  spiritual authority, not a human being’s.

Post # 23
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5654 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: April 2011

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@Sunfire:  That’s certainly your choice to make for yourself, as we all have to, but since it’s not biblical I couldn’t advise the OP of taking that stance.

Post # 24
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9940 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: September 2012

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@runsyellowlites:   How is my choice not biblical?

Post # 25
Member
3457 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: May 2012

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@runsyellowlites:  Unfortunately, as the priest scandals all to well document, men and women are infalliable – including those of the cloth.  Although I am non-practicing, I am proud to say that I am part of a church that tried to bring God’s word to the people (Luthanism – by making services in English, not Latin, by providing printed bibles for people, enouraging a personal relationship with God, etc.), rather than telling them to blindly follow a spiritual leaders guidance.  They can make mistakes.  You say she was “planted” here so must follow these dictates, but it’s also possible this struggle she is having is designed to encourage her to find the right church for her, a different one from her current home.

Post # 26
Member
9948 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: December 2012

This is crap…

Sorry, but no where in the Bible does it say (a) Sex in a Loving Relationship is BAD, or (b) Living together before marriage is wrong.

Like a good deal of Religious rhetoric these are Man’s Interpretations… and MAN’s RULES on “expected behaviour”

Not GOD’s

Look at the grief and heart-ache this is causing you.

Your pastor is not praising the choice and commitment your Fiance and You have made to each other, and willing to make before God … that is WHAT LOVE AND MARRIAGE is supposed to be about.

Time to find another pastor / church.

 

 

Post # 27
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5654 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: April 2011

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@Sunfire:  All throughout scripture we see God appoint men, and occasionally women, to be spiritual leaders of His followers. How would the New Testament look if the churches that Paul wrote to, being their spiritual leader, decided that it didn’t work for what the “wanted” so they didn’t sumit to it?… From cover to cover we see God set up a system that calls His followers to submit under the leadership of those we puts in position of spiritual authority. That’s why not following your Pastor is important in growing in relationship to Christ. (so long as it doesn’t directly go against God).

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@kay01:  I completely 100% agree that man is falliable SO we should ALWAYS go back to God’s word to make sure the teaching/instruction we get is right…. just like Paul commended the people of Berea for scrutinizing even his teaching to God’s word (which was the Old Testament at the time). I would never blindly follow or advise someone to blindly follow anyone, but if the instruciton given does not go against what God has in his word, just like in this case, then I would advise (as I have since the original post) to allow God to change the individuals heart/wants and submit under what’s been requested. There ARE times that God calls us to leave a church, but it’s never because we don’t want to change or “like” what is expected of us…. rather it’s when we can no longer grow closer to him there b/c the teaching is shallow or incorrect.

This Time Round: While the bible does not talk specifically of living together, it most certainly covers your “a” of having sex outside of a marriage covenant. And again agreeing that this isn’t specifically covered in scripture, the request does not go against it so it still falls under submitting to spiritual authority as part of submitting to God. I’m well aware that this is no longer common practice in our society, but it is still what is lined out in scripture as how we should follow God and when we do this God does some awesome things!.. It may be “crap” and not be what we “want” but it does definitley pay off. =)

Post # 28
Member
802 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: September 2012

Darling, I know this is a difficult thing that you are doing, and I know what I’m about to say is going to sound a little bit harsh, but I don’t mean it in a mean or judgmental way.  Only as something for you to think about.  

4 months isn’t that long an amount of time.  You say you and Fiance almost never fight; you say he wants what’s best for you, and that you believed when you arranged this that this was what God wanted for you.  Why then are you fighting all of the time over this issue?   

It sounds like your Fiance is a little bit too dependent on you (based on your post from when this first came up more than from this post).  Maybe I’m entirely wrong on that, but just think about that.  These next four months will probably be the most autonomous four months you will have for a long time; I can understand being happier with you in the house (my Fiance and I are like that) but if he’s saying on the one hand that he will do whatever it takes to make you happy and on the other making you feel crummy about it, maybe the separation is good.  You both agreed to do this.  You said this was what you wanted, and your Fiance said he’d do this for you.  It should be enough to say to him, “This is what I believe God wants, and I want to do this; I can’t wait to spend the rest of my life with you, but for now we can sleep under different roofs.”

Unless, of course, you really don’t want to do this, and I do mean for YOU and not from any wish to please your Fiance or make his life better.  If you truly don’t want to do this, do what others have suggested and talk to other pastors.  Or talk to this one!  Can he explain why your relationship has gotten so much worse since this became an issue?  And you can say that to his aunt and uncle, they’ll understand, and even if they don’t they will forgive.  Maybe it’s easier for you guys to keep the lovetank full when you live together and when you don’t, you don’t feel those needs met.

It is beautiful about you that you try so hard to put others before yourself, but don’t forget to take care of yourself too.  Life is hard.  Marriage is hard.  But working through these challenges builds us up and tempers us.

 

Post # 29
Member
441 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: October 2012

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@runsyellowlites:  I think you missed a bigger point I was trying to make.  I understand how you think this situation is going with god’s word because THIS pastor is saying so, and has a spiritually fulfilled church (not sure how you can guage that, but anyway…).  But it makes no sense to me how if you take all the same situation, but have a pastor who says it is fine for them to live together, they would need to listen to his guidance as well.  It seems like you can’t have it both ways.  I know there are plenty of people whose pastors have no problem with them living together and you wouldn’t say they are going against god?  It’s just the point that it appears to be an OPNION of a man.

Post # 31
Member
441 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: October 2012

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@best10612:  I think you should find another pastor.  It sounds like you have a lot of conflicts with him and I doubt this would be the last one.  You should start your married life in a church and with a pastor who you feel comfortable with and who you feel you can get guidance from. 

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