NIPT and gender selection

posted 9 months ago in The Lounge
Post # 106
Member
4 posts
Wannabee

This is a thread that is really triggering. I don’t think this is the appropriate place to discuss this. Feeling very upset every time I refresh weddingbee and see this at the top of the page. My heart absolutely breaks for the women judged so harshly for deciding they cannot care for a child regardless of their reasoning.  And I want to offer a sincere apology to those that experience extreme gender disappointment. I have not, but I see you. I understand. And I sympathize deeply. And I’m so sorry the world at large does not.

Post # 107
Member
4820 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: July 2018

anonbee232323 :  if you don’t want to read it then don’t but I fail to see how this is an inappropriate place for this discussion.  The bee has a wide range of posts both wedding and non wedding related. 

Post # 108
Member
7778 posts
Bumble Beekeeper

ariesscientist :  “We should also remember that the NHS is funded by tax payers and is free on the basis of need not want (which is why we have criteria for abortions in the first place), no one needs to abort a baby because they would prefer a boy instead. It’s an abuse of the system and is illegal.”

I understand that the NIH is a need-based system, but I would imagine that the medical costs of a termination are a fraction of what it costs to carry a baby to term and deliver it in the hospital. So I’m not really understanding that part of your argument.

Whether you believe women should be able to have abortions based on sex or not, it’s really besides the point because the government here have made it illegal. Hence, the need to close a loophole which is letting people undergo illegal abortions.

It is more than a loophole though; in my opinion it is a right of parents to access any data that is available to them on the pregnancy, including sex. The fact that a small minority of people could use that information to abuse the system does not in my opinion justify witholding that info from everyone.

In your opinion there’s no need to find out the sex until birth, but that’s just an opinion. As pp mentioned, finding out the sex early could help the mother bond with her baby, potentially improving mental health. 

Post # 109
Member
4 posts
Wannabee

Absolutely! I should rephrase. There should be a trigger warning.

Post # 110
Member
2104 posts
Buzzing bee

anonbee232323 :  You have the option to not click into the thread– the title CLEARLY states “NIPT and gender selection”. Common sense should prevail here — there’s no misleading title, it is plain as day.

Post # 111
Member
4 posts
Wannabee

Easily mistaken for  information of the process of gender selection with ivf which is why I clicked on it.

Post # 112
Member
677 posts
Busy bee

tiffanybruiser :  I don’t think it’s fear mongering when this is happening in huge swathes of the world, it already impacts a fourth of the world’s population considering India alone. I’m not even counting China, because there aren’t any voting patterns to be swayed there. 

My example was meant to highlight how men and women fall into distinct voting patterns. I’m not claiming that NIPT testing revealing sex information in the UK will impact US voting patterns. That would be a massive stretch, I agree. Still, for perspective, the population impacted by this problem far exceeds the populations of all western nations combined. And we are not as insulated from the rest of the world as we may have once been. 

Post # 113
Member
1474 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: September 2015

tiffanybruiser :  This is just fearmongering. If you seriously think that allowing parents in the UK to find out the gender of their baby through the NIPT will result in such a drastic increase of male vs female babies being born that it will sway a future election in the U.S….I dunno what to say. 

I think what techmom :  is trying to say (sorry if presumptuous) is that:

1) it is not just a few who are doing this.  UK peeps are not only worried about “tourists” but also about sectors of the UK population itself.  These could be not only recent immigrants but 2nd, 3rd, even later generations from these specific cultures where son preference and general misogyny run deep. It runs so deep, even my own parents who both have advanced degrees and who while growing up did not (discernibly) treat me differently for being born a girl, have expressed happiness that my first child is a boy, saying things to me like “you’re lucky you already have a boy.”  I’m like what do you care…going by the “boys carry on the family name reasoning”, he doesn’t even have your last name!  Plus my mother in law really wanted a girl (By the way this would very very rarely happen in the home country unless you already had like 4 boys or something, and my parents would not be the only ones to feel apologetic towards their in-laws for their daughter not having given birth to a son).  This compared to their disappointment when my sister, who is much younger than me, was not a boy.  I really don’t know how to describe just how pervasive this is.  

and finally getting to 2) what happens in one country’s population does have global ramifications.  “Surplus” men cause social unrest because these men will also tend to be from poor/rural areas and as a result have a higher likelihood of being unemployed. I misspoke in an earlier post of mine that China has hundreds of millions of surplus men.  Correction: we *only* have tens of millions, I think official estimate is about 30 million by 2020.  30 million young, largely unemployed men is going to make the crime rate soar, decrease the efficiency of the labor force, and that in turn will affect global economy.  Or China might decide to get in an armed conflict somewhere so they can throw these men at it…

I really don’t know which way I would come down on the ban and my conflict comes from several considerations which I will list in no particularly coherent order:

* It’s generally NOT the pregnant woman’s choice to have a sex-selective abortion.  So this issue really isn’t very much about women’s choice, per se.  The pressure comes from her immediate family.  The usual suspects are husband and mother-in-law.  So if I were living in the midst of these pressures, I might be grateful for a ban so that I will not be pressured into aborting my daughter.

* The people who will choose a sex-selective abortion also might not hesitate to do it at 16 weeks, 20 weeks…so if they’re going to do it anyway then at least finding out earlier with the NIPT, it will be easier on the woman’s body.  

* Just thwarting someone from a sex-selective abortion is only treating the symptom but not the underlying cause.  The mother and her baby girl will suffer a lot in life.  If the baby girl ends up having male siblings later, she will be treated even worse.  But maybe it’s still better than nothing.

  

Post # 114
Member
677 posts
Busy bee

tiffanybruiser :  To your point about derailing: I appreciate an honest, even contentious, discussion on the various issues at hand. 

But, with jannigirl, it’s clear there was some disingenuousness as she wasn’t really representing her position, which would’ve likely been -‘yes, sex selective abortion is wrong just as any abortion is wrong.’ Okay, I disagree with that overall statement but I can respect it. Instead she argued about how ‘since abortion is okay for financial reasons or vanity or quasi health reasons (essentially her words!), then this should be too.’

I recognize that as an unfair tactic out of the conservative playbook. Kind of like how they’ll often conflate being gay with bestiality. It takes away from the debate. 

I can vehemently disagree with you on this issue (though I usually agree with you on most others) and still respect where you are coming from, but that’s because I believe neither of us is misrepresenting our positions. 

 

Post # 115
Member
1049 posts
Bumble bee

tiffanybruiser :  

And how many abortions would someone have until they got the boy they wanted? One, two, three, four? And then if they wanted more boys after that? It could be never ending. Not to mention the amount of people coming over here from other countries just for that purpose. The NHS does take into account cost, but that is only one factor in deciciding if something is provided on the NHS, the other factors are need, safety, efficacy etc. There is no need at all for someone to abort a baby in the U.K. because they would prefer a boy rather than a girl or vice versa. Not only is it illegal, but it is an abuse of services and cannot be justified medically. 

As for the rest of your post, this is a difference of opinion. Do you have evidence which proves there is a need to find out the sex of the baby in the first trimester for bonding purposes? Because I find it extremely hard to believe that someone would struggle to bond with their child because they couldn’t find out the sex until 20 weeks gestation. 

Leave a comment


Find Amazing Vendors