Post # 62
I’m a member of a Nazarene church, and there will be no dancing at our wedding, and truthfully, I’m great with that. I was never fond of dancing, and the last time I did it, I broke my foot. The reason is because it could become a problem, and it could influence younger minds. I haven’t been to a club in a long time, but the dancing is getting disgusting. There were once people playing out sexual positions on the dance floor. I believe it isn’t because of some antiquated, backwards thinking. It is to protect the ladies in the church from anyone with inpure motives and to protect the guys from falling into a position where they may feel less like being protectors. We are having board games as centerpieces at our wedding, and other games like bean bag toss and bowling at our wedding. It’ll be a lot more fun than dancing, I think, and it’ll be great fun for the kids.
As for the drinking, there were three types of wine in Jesus’ day, and the best wine was the non-alcoholic wine. Once it begins to ferment, it is considered a lesser quality, so when Jesus turned water into wine, being that it was the best wine, I’m betting it was non-alcoholic.
As for women pastors, the Nazarene church allows this. There are many reasons that women were not allowed to teach in Paul’s hayday. Women hadn’t been allowed to learn along with the men before, even though the Corinthian society, so I’ve heard, was matriarchal. ( Women were probably going full steam to take their places as leaders in the temple when they didn’t have the knowledge to be teachers of the word, yet.)
Women pastors these days do have that knowledge. You will also find women as leaders over men in several instances in the Bible. Simpy put, there are times when it was better or necessary for a woman to be a leader. In a day when we are spreading the gospel to the nations and need all the workers we can get, why would anyone forbid a woman from being a pastor? I think we really need to look at context and the will of God before we say who should or should not be telling us to do something.
Post # 63
The “unfermented grape juice” thing is actually just an urban legend. If you ever get a chance to study Biblical Greek, I highly recommend it! That way you can study the source texts themselves. There is a specific word for non-alcoholic wine, and it does not appear in the Septuagint. Jesus was definitely drinking the strong stuff.
Post # 64
I learned this weekend that his first miracle was at wedding! Guess what he did?! Filled the jars with wine and it was the good stuff too! The guests commented on how the couple served the “best” wine first. Typically they would serve the best at the end!
Post # 65
Also, the whole point was that most people don’t serve the best wine last, b/c people are already drunk. So it’s not like Jesus was saying “Okay guys – let’s all switch to water and gatorade now! Party’s over!” even though people were already tipsy.
Post # 66
You know… I think an even bigger point of Jesus turning the water into wine is that it wasn’t what God even called him to do, but it was only out of obedience and honor to his mother that He did it.
Becuase really, it’s not about drinking or dancing or not doing either… it’s about being obedient to God and who God has placed in our lives to help direct and grow us to be closer to Him.
Weddings are great and just as Jesus performed His first miracle at one… one day all that served, were obedient, grew in Him, and knew His voice & followed it and not another, will be with him in another Wedding Celebration of the Bridegroom and His Church.
Lets not loose focus just b/c we want to have a day that’s all for and all about us. I think Jesus holds high regard and honor to those that humble themselves and following the instruction of their Leaders…. considering it doesn’t completely come against and blaspheme God Himself. And it’s when God honors us that we Really get the best deal. =)
Post # 67
Woooooow. Just. Woooooooow. That is all.
Post # 68
Looks like we will have to agree to disagree. I’ve studied scholarly articles in depth that take translation into account and study the original Greek. These are from sources that have studied the Bible, translations, and archaeology for years.
Post # 69
My fiance is spanish and many people in his family turned to this “evangelio
Post # 70
dosent look like most of my post went…
Post # 71
i’m a christian as well, and we go to a baptist church. although the church does not allow dancing at the church itself, about half of the people coming to the wedding are baptist (the rest are all other christian denominations) and we’ll all be dancing at my wedding reception (that will be at another venue, not the church).
Post # 72
I think you explained it perfectly!!! I think it’s harder for those not in our denomination to understand why we do things the way we do ’em, and I’m so glad you were able to post so that OP would have some better insight…God Bless!
Post # 73
Your comment about the alcohol content of wine at the time of Jesus is not correct. In fact, because of the concern of spoilage, their wine ws fermented longer and in warmer weather, and thus would be stronger than most wines we drink today.
There’s no Biblical basis for banning alcohol, and in fact there are several obvious references to it in both the OT and NT. Hebrew and Greek both have multiple words for drinks derived from grapes, some alcoholic and some not (grape juice). However it is very clear that the wine served by Melchizadek and drank by Jesus is the alcoholic kind.
All Christians – Catholic and protestant – were fine with alcoholic drinks throughout history. Calvin even had part of his salary paid in wine. The temperance movement started in the 1740’s from John Wesley (the founder of Methodism) because he did not like the potential for abuse and the saw the wine makers as being immoral. That argument became the basis for many temperance movements and churches that today ban alcohol.
From that perspective, I see no problem with people who do not partake in the consumption of alcohol. But to view it as fundamentally evil or to ban it outright doesn’t make sense. Especially when one tries to do it by falsely citing the Bible as justification.
Post # 74
Since you are new to this church, I find myself wondering how you found it and why it appealed to you.
I’m a Bostonian (now living in a far more conservative place!) and the diversity of churches in the Boston metro area is amazing. I went church shopping myself for a little while. Even within the same sect, there is good amount of variety.
You seem to have a problem with what this pastor is saying. Perhaps you already know that this isn’t exactly your “home” church for the next phase of your life.
Post # 75
I was raised and still practice my christian (pentacostal) faith and Fiance is catholic and unless your holding your reception within the church property I have never heard of no dancing…but to each their own!
Post # 76
@georgie77 thanks… I’m not in the same denomination, rather I’m focused on biblical teaching and not man made doctrine… regardless of that though I tried to keep the focus on what all of us need to keep and that’s our perspective of spiritual authority, scriptural study, and most of all not what I THINK I should be able to do or not do. lol
@CatholicBee My apologies for offending you.
I didn’t realize I ever said it was “evil” or banned “biblically”… I’m also not the only one that stated about the alcohol content being at a different level than our alcohol today. I don’t believe I mis-quoted anything biblically as the only thing in reference to the alcohol was not to be “drunk with wine” and went on with my assumption (through a sound teacher) that liquor would be sinful b/c of its starting the intoxication process with just 1 oz.
To further clarify about Jesus drinking himself… the only scriptural reference to this is when Jesus spoke about John the Baptist.. contrasting himself to him in Luke 7…. never do we actually see “and then he drank…” or anything along these lines.
Again my apologies for the offense, I was merely pointing out the biblical standpoint on these things… most though on spiritual authority regardless of what’s “legal” or not… for the benefit of the OP and her desire to grow spiritually in the Church that she holds as her home church & place of worship.