NWR – What to do?? Salary discussions.

posted 2 months ago in Career
Post # 2
Member
6275 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: July 2016

I think your email sounds like it was right on the money–your talking points and tone was perfect, from the sound of it.  I think talking to John tomorrow (a full week after the email was sent) isn’t a bad idea.  I’d leave out any new information until you hear what he has to say–you’ve said your bit, now let him say his.  Chances are it’ll be “we saw it, and we plan to have a conversation about it but our schedules haven’t lined up yet” or something.  If that’s the case, just push for an actual date to be set when you can sit down with them and do an annual review/salary discussion… even if its a month away (which sounds like it might be) you’ll feel better having it on the calendar I bet.

As to whether you should bring up the $29.. I probably wouldn’t TBH.  you don’t know what they’ve offered him in the end.  What I *WOULD* say, especially if they offer you less or ask you what you want your compensation to be would be something along the lines of:  “I love this company and I hope you value me too.  If at some point I found out that someone who is either less qualified or less experienced than me is being paid more than I am–this new hire, for example–that’d be very upsetting, and make me feel like I was being paid less than my worth.  All I want is fair compensation given the current market rate for someone with my skill set and experience.”

 Unfortunately, your worth is primarily tied to *your* outside options, and not to the salary of your coworkers.  The only way to virtually guarantee a raise is to have an outside offer, basically.

Post # 3
Member
130 posts
Blushing bee

Totally agree with PP.

Also adding, the job market is largely what drives rates/rate changes over the years. So, although it’s always a rough pill to swallow that he’ll be at a higher starting rate than your starting rate, the market as well as inflation etc etc all contribute to that. You can’t change his rate, nor can you change your starting rate from 5 years ago, but it sounds like you’re on the right track and justified to request they review your current salary. 

Post # 4
Member
513 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: May 2015

lolot :  I mostly wanted to pop in to say GOOD FOR YOU – that is complete and utter bullshit and you should be standing up for yourself. Rather than focusing on the new guy and his lack of experience  (and the fact that you overheard their discussion) I would focus on what you’ve brought to the table in terms of project management since you’ve been there, where you see your role going, etc.

If you get push back and you think your record of success is solid then I might bring up the pay equity argument.

Post # 5
Member
9446 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: September 2015

You need to talk to John and stop being so polite! You already implied you know about the new hire… so I do think you could bring it up and honestly show a controlled amount of annoyance and anger if you have a good relationship with John and can speak honestly. I also would pull some comps to see what the market rate is of your job. The place to do this stuff if never over email! Be ballsy and make him have this conversation with you. Keep bringing it up until it happens and you’re satisfied. 

Post # 6
Member
64 posts
Worker bee
  • Wedding: March 2018

I think the email was fine and a follow up in person would also be good. I do not think you should mention what you “think” you heard they may pay the new hire. In my company discussing wages amongst employees is very very frowned upon. Also, you might know his education and experience particulars, but you have no idea (and it isn’t your business) if he is bringing other attributes to the table which make him more attractive to the hiring manager. 

Relative to other similar companies and positions to yours, are your pay scale and raises equitable? I admit that I don’t know what your industry is like, but $25/hr after 5.5 years in a field requesting a masters degree seems relatively low to me.  

Post # 7
Member
506 posts
Busy bee

Agreed that you need to do a little market research to find out if your pay rate is even fair – sounds like you are potentially being taken advantage of in a major way because you don’t know your worth. 

Am I also right in reading that over the course of nearly six years your raises have totaled four dollars an hour??? This talk is long overdue. 

Post # 10
Member
506 posts
Busy bee

lolot :  Glassdoor has salary comps on their website, a lot of states will have databases as well if you do a quick google search for your job title and state + salary. Your local library should have access to some of the paid business databases as well, where you should be able to look up salary comparables – same if you live near a university with a business school.

ETA: I’ve never used salary.com before today, but I was fiddling around with it and it seems pretty straightforward and the info for my job and location was pretty much spot on. 

Post # 11
Member
6275 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: July 2016

lolot :  No problem, I wish you luck–it does sound like you’re being underpaid.

FWIW, getting another offer is not so much about leverage.  It’s more like a price tag.  You’re finding out your market rate when you get an outside offer.  Since they’re a smaller company it may not be as important, but many times you just *can’t* get a significant raise without an outside offer that basically proves to HR that you are worth it.  

In general it’s good to avoid threats (“ill quit if you don’t do this!”)–IMO it’s best to not make any cordial negotiation turn hostile..  but it sounds like you know that.  (that and–what if they call your bluff?)

Post # 12
Member
9702 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: June 2015

lolot :  pp gave great advice, so I just want to add that you might want to acknowledge, if they are married, that you know the family is going through a hard time right now-  and ask for a time to talk, saying it’s very important but acknowledging their stress, too.

def don’t let them put you off, but if an employee started pushing me when they could see we were stressed and down a person due to a family emergency or whatever, I would be really annoyed and think less of their leadership skills.

Of course, I also wouldn’t offer a new person the same or more as a person already established who was doing a great job, and it’s really crappy that they did this or thought of it.

so, this brings me to the last point- make sure you know they know how good of a job you’re doing and don’t have other feedback. ( not suggesting you’re wrong,  just trying to cover your bases so they can’t come back and say but x)

good luck bee, sorry you’re in this spot but good for you for your email.

oh, if they are really happy with you, I might push them for most favored nations type clause/amendment to work contract so this doesn’t happen again. 

 

Post # 14
Member
67 posts
Worker bee
  • Wedding: February 2019

Hey, just read this post, bee. How are things going? Have you talked to John yet? 

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