(Closed) Prenup 6 days before wedding!

posted 3 years ago in Money
Post # 61
Member
3197 posts
Sugar bee

p.s. I hope he is paying for 100% of this wedding. Otherwise, his behavior is even shadier. You don’t let someone put down deposits without having worked out the prenup.

Post # 62
Member
5161 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: January 2010

scissorgirl:  You can think that, but that is not exactly how it works. Her labour also goes into the house. Her maintenance contributes to the preservation and appreciation of the home. What if they decide together she is going to stay home with future kids and take care of the home, and she does all the work to raise the kids and to keep the home in good repair, and they divorce?  What if she forks over a few hundred bucks every month for the mortgage (assuming they do not have joint accounts) but he decides to spend it on other things: she gets nothing because he did not actually put it physically against the mortgage? What if they agree in the budget her income will cover groceries, utilities, and recreation, and his the mortgage, she still gets nothing? Your thinking is actually quite archaic, actually more than archaic because things like dower rights have been around in some jurisdictions a century or so now, and thankfully there are also now often laws that recognize labour and “unpaid work” does contribute to the value of a home. 

If I have $5,000 in a savings account when we sign a prenup and through good investing that grows to $5,000,000 – it’s all still mine. “

And if she had signed a prenup – not under duress – that said that, then yes, that would be the case. But she has not signed one, and she has the right to negotiate what she believes is fair. Personally, I would want no part of a marriage where there was an “all that is mine is mine forever” attitude. Where we were not looking out for each other as a team, instead of only after ourselves. Prenups CAN be fair, and protect both assets and not be punitive towards an ex-partner.

My husband and I both had savings and assets when we met. We consider them our savings and assets, even the appreciation. Whats ours is ours. We are poor, or wealthy, together, so this idea that if “he is wealthy, she might call him to pay the repair bill” is bizarre to me.

Post # 63
Member
7910 posts
Bumble Beekeeper

The last minute prenup is a little shady. Did he think he could get away with that? I wouldn’t plan on saying “I do” anytime soon. 

Post # 64
Member
1703 posts
Bumble bee

Daisy_Mae:   

Using your logic, a renter would be entitled to appreciation…

The fact of the matter – he came up with the down payment, he paid the closing costs, he is paying the mortgage…

If they move and sell that house and put the money into a NEW house, THEN, I think minus his initial investment, she is entitled to split the appreciation, but just because you live someplace (or even pay “rent”), no I don’t think you are entitled to anything…

I have had boyfriends live in my house – they paid me “rent”…so by the logic of people here, these boyfriends would be entitled to equity in my house…yeah, I don’t think so! (Btw- when the water heater exploded, or the fridge died – they didn’t pay anything…I paid for that…shutting off the water valve doesn’t entitle you to anything beyond a “thank you”! lol)

Now, if she moves in and contributes financially to things like a new roof, new appliances, renovations – THEN, I think she should be entitled to something…assuming she is paying those things ABOVE and beyond RENT -not INSTEAD of rent…

Post # 65
Member
8815 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper

ct2015:  Your analogies don’t make sense. One of the main benefits of renting is that you aren’t responsible for maintenance. When shit breaks you call the landlord. That’s the deal. So by my logic, renters AREN’T entitled to appreciation. If the OP never lifts a finger to do any home repairs or improvements, and the costs for any repairs or improvements come from his own personal stash rather than any “household” or joint account they might have, then I guess maybe your scenario would apply. But that would be unusual so until and unless the OP comes back and says that’s how they’re going to do their finances, it doesn’t make sense to assume that’s the case.

You and I seem to have a different idea of marriage. To me it’s not just a business deal. There are business aspects, but there’s way more to it. You seem to see it as mainly business which you’re allowed to do, but I still don’t see your point. Landlords and tenants aren’t sharing the rest of their life together. The renter is paying for one thing — a roof over their head. A husband and wife are building a life together. If he spends $1000 on the mortgage and she spends $1000 on groceries and other bills, both of these are for their benefit together as a couple. Why should her contribution be valued less than his? That’s what you’re saying when you say she’s not entitled to appreciation of the house. His capital investment, yes — that was his. But they build the appreciation together so she should be entitled to part of that. I wouldn’t marry someone who thought our marriage was like a lease. That doesn’t sound fun or fulfilling at all. We’re not going to agree so I’ll stop derailing the OPs thread now. You do your way and I’ll do mine.

Post # 66
Member
994 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: November 2018

yikes.

I am on team “get a prenup” even though there are a lot more to the legalities than people realize (ex, 10 year clauses, etc.) but I would NOT sign anything that didn’t entitle me to a fair share of whatever equity was incurred over the course of our marriage, or protected me in the event of my SO’s death! That’s insane.

Not even engaged yet and we’re already discussing the terms of our prenup (which largely amounts to protecting family assets and not much else)

I would tell him no, but agree to make an appointment with a lawyer 6 months from your wedding and sign a post nuptial that you work on the details together. Book the appointment now (6 months so you can enjoy some newlywed bliss without dealing with lawyers)

Post # 67
Member
3334 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: September 2017

RayKay:  What you’re talking about is alimony. Spousal support. I didn’t see anything mentioned about that in any of the OPs posts. But yes, I do agree that stay at home/less wealthy spouses should receive some support in the event of a divorce.

Spousal support =/= home equity.

The fact is that (IN GENERAL) a home will gain equity through time with no one doing anything. The house could be a total dump, and will still gain equity because of the land. Cleaning a home does not entitle you to equity.

I guess I don’t see the big deal with him keeping what was his before marriage separate. I have a family friend (unmarried) who has a vintage sports car. I have no idea of the value, but it’s probably incredibly valuable. If he were ever to get married, I can guarantee that would be part of the prenup – that is his alone, before during and after marriage. The wife would have to stake in it. And it’s only going to keep increasing in value for as long as he lives (and past that).

I realize a car is different than a home, but if she’s living rent free because he already owns this place, then I don’t see how it’s a bad deal for her.

Post # 68
Member
1703 posts
Bumble bee

scissorgirl:  

I see it the same way you do…

Marriage isn’t a “business deal”, but by the same token it is foolish not to protect your assets…I don’t know ANYONE that divorced the same person they married! If the marriage is everything you both think it is, then the reality is the Pre-nup never comes into play…

As far as being widowed – I can understand that if someone has children..if not, I don’t understand…

Post # 69
Member
171 posts
Blushing bee

ct2015:  Do you not understand that getting married changes things? lol. It’s not remotely the same as living with a boyfriend because you are entering into a legal contract that creates obligation to the other person. 

Where I am from the marital home becomes legal right to both spouses regardless if it is solely owned by one of them. You are entitled to some portion of the equity and appreciation because you have contributed to it over the course of the marriage. She doesn’t even have to contribute much financially if she is a homemaker or offering “labour” in the home to keep it running. 

Post # 70
Member
1703 posts
Bumble bee

cc5598: 

I am not stupid – I understand marriage “changes thing”; however, I don’t think it is a black and white issue…if say he lived in the house for 10 years before meeting her and the house has appreciated to $1,000,000 and he put $750,000 into it, if the marriage ends in 5 years, I don’t think she is entitled to any portion of that $250,000…if they are married for 20 years and the marriage ends, the house is worth $1,500,000 – then I think they split the $500,000…typically, a pre-nup values the house at the time of marriage – the appreciation starts at THAT date (which is fair)

Post # 71
Member
4839 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: June 2014

lizziegrant:   Do not sign it.   A prenup signed so close to the wedding may well prove invalid if challenged, but in any case do not sign it.  

You have rights – do not sign them away.

Post # 72
Member
5894 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: April 2013

lizziegrant:  You should not sign a document under durress and you should 100% hire your own lawyer to review the document and advocate for you.

I have no problem with pre-nups (or post-nups).  I think they are a smart and pragmatic choice for people who enter into marriage with signifigant assets, inheritences, business, etc – especailly if they are getting married later in life when many of their earning years are behind them.  I considered whether I should get one before getting married myself (decided it wasn’t necessary in my case).

But dropping it on you suddenly days before the wedding?  That’s a low blow.  Is this indicitave of his communication style?  Because that’s messed up.

Post # 73
Member
11970 posts
Sugar Beekeeper

He’s a bully with this timing and those are awful stipulations. Do not sign.  

Post # 74
Member
313 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: November 2016

This thread is all “I’m not a lawyer but…”. You need to get a lawyer and discuss this. Don’t sign it before you do that. If he won’t get married without you signing it, f*** him and don’t get married. 

Post # 75
Member
1285 posts
Bumble bee

Any updates OP?  If your lawyer relative says don’t sign it, I’d take that advice.  Are you proceeding with the wedding?

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