Post # 137
While I don’t have a problem with prenups, I think that they should be fair.
I don’t understand why you would be left with nothing if your fiance died. That seems very selfish.
It looks like you and your fiance need to hash out your different approaches to money in a marriage. This is a dealbreaker.
I couldn’t marry a man who looked at marriage this way. It appears that your fiance’s family is strategically trying to protect him and leave you in the lurch. Why did his sister have to get involved? What a nasty family to marry into!
Post # 138
I hope I’m not repeating what others have recommended, but this should hopefully help-
1. Definitely get your own lawyer. If you don’t have independent counsel the pre-nup could be challenged anyway, so his family should support your decision to hire someone.
2. In handling the death issue, I would propose that if the marriage ends due to death, you would get 75% of all assets and his parents/family get 25%. However, if you two have kids, you would get 100%, with 25% of it going into a trust for the kids. This makes the most sense as it protects the children and technically, it is smarter to move the money to the wife than family for tax issues.
3. Make sure property is put in both of your names (if it isn’t already) once you are married. This is important in the case of death so that it would stay yours and not go to the trust/estate.
4. Perhaps offer up waiving alimony for the first X years (i.e. you waive alimony for the first 10 years of marriage). That way you show some compromise with the original terms.
Those are the things that stood out to me up front. I, too, am dealing with a pre-nup and it isn’t fun. My BIGGEST piece of advice is to get your lawyer asap and keep discussions about the prenup and it’s terms between your lawyers only. Prenups are emotional and the more you two talk about them together, the more possibility for tension, hurt feelings etc. Treat this like what it is, a contract preparing for the worst case scenario. It’s so hard, but the more you can keep emotions out of it, and the more you can keep discussions between just you and your lawyer, the better off it will be for your relationship. That being said, you still should probably have a few talks with your guy about his family’s involvement in your finances, relationship etc.
Good luck and I hope this works out for you two!
Post # 139
-SO says he will be using his sister afterall. He didn’t respect my wish. He said he trusts his sister, the other lawyers are just out to make money off of him.
-SO also rushed me in saying that we need to get it signed ASAP, if it’s signed too close, then we need to delay our wedding date.
-SO also accused me in saying that I’m taking too long to get the prenup sign, it’s my tactic to get the prenup nullified. I got the prenup on Wednesday. Today is Friday.
-He called me greedy for wanting 50% of whatever we earned during the marriage, (AND his separate assets are protected, and I agreed to make him 50% ownership of my future practice since it is afterall, acquired after the marriage.)
WOW. I’m beyond hurt. I’m thinking i don’t need to postpone the wedding. Maybe I won’t need a wedding. My poor parents. 🙁
Post # 140
@mlk1980: I’m sorry to read your update… if I were you, I would be postponing/calling off the wedding at this point. Your fiance is showing his true colors here — YOU should be his closest confidant & partner in everything, but he’s shown that you are not. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this… but perhaps better to know now than post-wedding.
Post # 141
@mlk1980: I’m really sorry about your FI’s reaction. You know what’s best for you, and your parents will want what’s best for you too.
): Best wishes in your decisions/
Post # 142
I was hoping to come on here and read a positive update from you. I am soooo sorry to hear about his latest thoughts on this whole situation. If I were in your shoes I would pack my bags and be glad I found out about his true colors now.
Post # 143
@mlk1980: Wow, I am so sorry. Your Fiance is being ridiculous. Have you taken the renup to an attorney yourself, before you completely decide to cancel things I would go and offer ammendments-if from there he is unwilling to be reasonable, this would be a deal breaker for me. Not just over the prenup itself but by the way he is treating you.
Post # 144
Glad to read you would get your own representation (and you should absolutely do it because I think that it’s very one sided). My hubby and I did a post nup (same as a pre nup but after the fact) because of family stuff.
He understood why we were doing it so he was okay with it. It can be a sensitive subject but at the end of the day, we did it for each other as well. I am by no means planning on a divorce BUT you just never know.
Good luck 🙂
Post # 145
@mlk1980: Hey there, sorry about this situation. But it may not be that bad! As other people have said, a prenup is a contract that, just like other contracts, is meant to be negotiated. He may not have had any particular feelings about the terms of the first draft–maybe he didn’t even read it, or maybe he felt pressured by his family into accepting those terms. In any case, this is not the agreement you will eventually be signing.
Now some lawyer stuff: I don’t know where you live and this is obviously super place-dependent (in another thread, I said some things about prenups that are apparently untrue in England and a bunch of people argued with me! But I was just talking about most American states), but many states (a) will not enforce certain alimony restrictions and (b) will not enforce a prenup where a party does not explicitly waive their right to have an independent lawyer. His sister drafted this one–not so independent. So a lot of this agreement is likely to be tossed out anyway, which serves no one, not even him.
Try having a constructive talk with your fiance and ask him what assets are important to him personally and what assets are important to his family. You should ask yourself the same questions; he has more assets now, but you’re a doctor and you might absolutely kill it someday! You’ll feel better about this agreement if it also contains clauses that protect you. Once you two have thought about this (it sounds like his family has given it thought, but not necessarily your fiance), talk together about how the agreement could be fairer.
Once you’ve done the soul-searching part, go see a lawyer by yourself. It doesn’t take lawyers too long to read through a short contract, and a lawyer in this practice area will be familiar with the ins and outs and keep their billing time low. They can tell you off the bat which clauses will be enforceable; if some of the offensive ones aren’t enforceable anyway, maybe you can just go back to your fiance’s family and convince them to cut them out. You can also have your lawyer talk to your fiance’s family on your behalf, which will give you someone to be assertive on your behalf–very important when there are serious emotional issues tied into the negotiations. You want someone looking out for you.
ETA: I hadn’t seen your update. So sad. I can’t believe the sister thing–such a bad idea for him too. . . does she even normally do this type of law?
Post # 146
@mlk1980: breathe. and do NOT feel rushed or pressured into signing this insanely important document.
If he’s trying to rush you, you need to postpone this wedding. You two have a lot to work out before walking down any aisle. I would immediately tell him you’re totally uncomfortable with this one-sided arrangement and that you feel ‘marriage’ is potentially not necessary in your relationship if he only wants to play house and be able to financially excuse himself whenever he sees fit. Marriage is an obligation to your partner through thick and thin– emotionally and financially. You’re a team.
I’m sorry bee, he seems like a total ass for degrading your feelings and accusing YOU of being greedy. Dont worry about your parents reactions, they will be their to comfort and support YOU. xx
Post # 147
@mlk1980: It’s coming across to me that when you sit him down and talk one on one, he has the same logic as you do. Then later suddenly (I’m guessing after discussions with his family) he flips the switch, do you really want to marry someone who can’t make up their own mind? It seems like you will always be last and your future children might be as well at least when it comes to his family, I don’t think that’s fair. For you to give up 50% of your practice and he won’t give up equal (which I am guessing is a lower percentage because of his higher salary, I assume) is not being a team. Don’t sign it until you are happy with the prenup or if he isn’t going to change it, make a decision that is best for you and what you want in a marriage.
Post # 148
I really hope things work out for you.
Simply, your SO needs to understand that this isn’t a money driven arguement. You are hurt that he and his family are not treating YOU as family. That is the long and short of it.
Pre-nups both ways. He feels like that this shouldn’t be an issue because money shouldn’t matter. However, HE is making this an issue in the first place. This is his issue, not yours.
You need to do what your heart says.
Post # 149
- Wedding: May 2013 - Pavilion overlooking golf course scenery, reception at banquet hall
Ugh. Postpone wedding, get a lawyer, get a counselor, whatever, but DON’T sign that stupid thing. The only options IMO are either no prenup at all, or one that you both came up with together with an IMPARTIAL party who DOESN’T STAND TO MAKE MONEY OFF THE AGREEMENT (not counting lawyer fees to simply write it – they’re astronomically small compared to the hell you’ll go through without their help, especially if you’re both doctors). Totally UGH situation!! If he doesn’t like those options, he’s welcome to just marry his sister then.
Seriously… if he takes his family’s opinions as THIS important that they trump you now, what happens over the years as they express to him that they don’t like you and thinks he should leave you? They are a toxic family, and you either need to truly convince your husband that he’s in charge of his own life, or you need to leave. So ridiculous. I’m mad on your behalf.
Post # 150
OP – I am a 4 time MOB and I promise you that your parents would FAR prefer you to walk away than to sign this piece of garbage. DO NOT SIGN THAT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. Please.
ETA – look how drastically different your update (#103) and your most recent update prior to this post are. Polar opposites. This is not the man you should marry. He is forcing your hand and he does not have your best interest at heart at all.
Post # 151
@LovelyCoCoBee: +1 on everything.
I don’t think I would have a family member contract something so personal. Seems they would have a personal interest in keeping assets in their own family. Fiance and I discussed a prenup but in the end, it’s just not something either of us are comfortable with. We are planning a life together, not preparing for a demise.