(Closed) PRO-LIFE BEES: What happens if the clinics close? Where do we go from there?posted 6 years ago in The Lounge
- 6 years ago
- Wedding: April 2012
Young women that engage in purity pledges are much more likely to engage in riskier sexual behavior like anal sex and oral sex without protection because they believe that they are maintaining their virginity. Comprehensive sex education and parents having an open dialogue with their children about sex is much more likely to delay sexual activity.
- 6 years ago
- Wedding: October 2014
@Bridey77: I’m 100% pro choice, but if I were pro life I’d like to see:
Honest, comprehensive sex ed. taught in schools – I’m sorry, but if you’re anti abortion and anti sex ed and you still think pregnancies can be prevented…I think you might also be anti-reality. Kids need to learn about birth control and the realities of sex. Sex education can be especially empowering to young women, I think it’s important to teach them that having a sex drive is not something to be ashamed to have, and that they should be in charge of all of their sexual experiences. If we taught teenage girls not to be ashamed of their sexuality then I think they’d be less afraid to ask questions about birth control. I absolutely agree tha abstinence education needs to be be banned – it’s alienating and useless.
Secular, impartial advice on adoption and childrearing – remember how in the good old days the Catholic church would pressure unmarried young mothers to hand over their babies even if that wasn’t what they wanted? Yeah, that needs to never happen again. Women in a difficult position who don’t have the right to an abortion need impartal advice that doesn’t put any pressure on them from a source without an agenda.
More tax funded support for poor families and single mothers – I want to see more money for food, clothing, housing, education, daycare, before and after school programs, inner city schools, youth sports teams, summer camps, tutoring programs, medical bills, physical therapy – whatever they need. These kids pro lifers force women to bring into the world need to be cared for, and the government needs to do that.
More resources for moms – I’d like to see the government provide free birth control, free counselling sessions, websites that talk about the hard parts of motherhood, free daycare, more mothers groups, resources for post-natal deression and other mental illnesses, more programs for children with special needs and their parents, addiction counselling, education programs specifically for moms to help them get back into learning. Whatever moms need to feel supported.
I’d especially like to see more resources for teen moms – society really hates teenage mothers and I can’t imagine what it feels like to have the low self esteem of a teenager and the stress of motherhood. I think teen moms need to have more acess to both academic and childcare education, and counselling services geared towards their age group. All (non terrible) moms deserve to feel like they’re doing a good job and I think building self esteem and confidence in young moms would make them better able to handle parenthood.
I’d also like to see more of an effort made to hugely cut down on homelessness among pregnant women and children.
As a pp said – love, care and compassion need to be at the heart of all of these programs. Empathy too. I can’t stress how important empathy is – we need to stop thinking of women with unwanted pregnancies as people who aren’t like us. We distance ourselves from them because we think they made Bad Choices, and that we are different because we made Good Choices. But that’s not true – we’re just like them, and we need to treat them like human beings who deserve our respect, love, compassion and empathy.
- 6 years ago
- Wedding: July 2014
Why is telling our children its okay to wait to have sex a bad thing?
There would be nothing wrong with that if that were, in fact, all that the abstinence movement was teaching young people. But that is not all they are saying. Abstinence-only speaker Pam Stenzel, for instance, goes into schools and tells young girls that having sex with someone is like putting a piece of duct tape on your arm. If you rip it off, pieces of your skin and hair will come with it. And the next time you have sex with someone, it won’t stick as well. Other abstinence programs pass around a cup to a classroom of students and encourage each student to spit in the cup; they then say that when they lose their virginity, it’s like drinking the cup of spit. All of these encourage students (but young girls, especially) to think of sex as something that is gross or dirty and unclean. Even the idea of calling abstinence pledges “purity” pledges suggests that a young woman who has sex is somehow “impure” or soiled. http://www.care2.com/causes/drink-the-spit-and-other-abstinence-only-education-lessons-video.html and http://www.thedailybeast.com/witw/articles/2013/04/19/pam-stenzel-america-s-abstinence-prophet.html
Abstinence-only education is also invested in prescribing very restrictive and sexist gender roles to students. Abstinence-only educator Justin Lookadoo recently came into a public Texas high school and told students that “Dateable girls know when to shut up”; plenty of other abstinence-only educators encourage young women not to ask men out or they use stories of princes slaying dragons as analogies to what men truly want from a girlfriend. This isn’t just about waiting to have sex (and, let’s be honest: the average age when women get married in the U.S. is now 26 so asking a woman to not have sex until she’s in her mid-20s is asking her to deny and ignore an important part of her identity for a long time). This is often just as much about spreadying patently false information about contraception and restricting the hopes and dreams and ambitions of young women. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-dr-jaime-clarksoles/justin-lookadoo-girls_b_4281587.html
Here’s the thing, though. Women, overall, are doing better in this country than ever before. Teen pregnancy rates are at an all-time low and young people are waiting to have sex at later ages. But studies have shown that this is due less in part to abstinence only education, and more to do with the fact that young women in particular want to finish high school and start college and have a career prior to having a family. My sense is that is more due to feminism and the idea that women deserve happy and fulfilling sex lives that do not purely exist for procreative purposes, as well as access to affordable and effective forms of birth control.
I think it’s also important to keep in mind when we talk about things like education and contraception to consider who actually gets abortions in this country. I think we have this stereotype that abortions are most commonly performed on 16 year old, reckless teens. But in fact, 60% of women who get abortions are between the ages of 20-25. And of that 60%, the majority of those women already have at least one child. So this isn’t about not wanting to take on the responsibility of motherhood; in fact, these women know exactly what motherhood requires and know that, for whatever reason, an additional child would be a strain on their whole family’s future. Again, this is an issue that has to be treated with compassion as opposed to accusing women (and, of course, men are never considered here) as immoral or irresponsible.
- 6 years ago
@MarriedToMyWork: It really saddens me….breaks my heart in fact, that you have had such a negative experience with the Christian community. The only thing I can assure you is that Jesus Christ is the ONLY standard for Christianity. The rest of us fall short, some more so than others.
Not everyone in the prolife movement is a Christian. I think this is something that needs to be said. “Prolife” and “Christian” are not interchangable terms. Yes, most Christians are prolife, but not everyone who is prolife is Christian. I believe these things should be kept seperate, as not all prolife individuals are prolife because of Christian principles.
Again, I think the Christian perspective on abstinence and the secular perspective are two entirely different things. I think the middle ground is agreeing that no one should become sexually active until they are ready, and the longer kids wait to have sex, the better off they are.
I do believe public policy needs to change. That was the point of this whole thread.
- 6 years ago
- Wedding: May 2009
@missjayb: Thank you very much! 🙂
I really appreciate your words, especially because you disagree with me on every level. I just want you to know that I completely understand why you and so many others would — and do — disagree with what I’ve said. If I had not had the upbringing, the life experiences, and the unconditionally loving and radically transformational encounters with God that I personally have had, I am sure that I would not hold the beliefs that I do.
I am almost off-the-charts analytical, so it absolutely makes sense to me why someone whose upbringing, life experiences, and world view are very different than mine would also hold a very different set of beliefs and values. Further, I realize that the very fact that I even believe that there are absolute truths — and that certain things are inherently right or inherently wrong — would be premises that many people would reject outright, based on the fact that they have an entirely different world view.
One of the reasons I enjoy discussing these types of topics on WB is because, although there may not be room for compromise on an issue itself, I believe there is an opportuntity for impassioned parties on both sides of an issue to gain a better understanding as to why members of the “other side” believe as they do.
- 6 years ago
- Wedding: July 2011
@Kate0558: “There is no common goal. Pro choicer s just care about them self. They have zero care for the baby they are slaughtering”
I’m guessing you were never taught that making sweeping generalizations about a population of people whom you’ve never met, is a silly way to try and get your “pro-life” point across. First, all of your replies in contribution to this thread have been probably taken with a grain of salt due to your exaggeration, immaturity, and snark. Second, they hold no truth at all. It’s impossible for you to know what the reason is for EVERY single woman who decides she is going to get an abortion. You are ridiculous and pathetic for assuming that all woman who choose abortion don’t care about anyone but themselves. Sure, some might do it because they just don’t feel like having a baby and some might not be able to afford having a child at all.
Also, forcing woman to listen to the heartbeat of the fetus isn’t going to change a woman’s mind who is set on having the abortion. Myself included. I had an abortion a few months ago and at one point they thought there might be twins so they did an ultrasound. I heard the heartbeat and saw the picture. That made no difference in my decision nor was it “earth shattering” for me. Having children is not something my husband and I want nor is it beneficial to my current health circumstances. Now since you enjoy putting your foot in your mouth by making generalizations, I’ll go ahead and let you know that we were using protection. 🙂
Lastly, you are absolutely ludacris for suggesting that clinics should force the woman to tell the father of the child whomever that might be. What if the “father” was abusive? Honestly, I’d be embarassed to have the views you do and if I were you, I’d learn how to articulate like an adult instead of popping in to make widespread generalizations that have no benefit to the topic.
For the OP: I am as pro-choice as they come and I support abortion at ANY given time for ANY reason. I also don’t have a problem with gender based abortions. With that being said, I still don’t like or enjoy abortions. I doubt any woman does. If you can find me a woman who says they enjoy getting abortions, and they are mentally stable, I will have no problem retracting my statement. Clearly in order to reduce the amount of abortions we need to reduce the amout of pregnancies by providing more birth control, information, and less JUDGMENT from the opposing sides. Some woman have found themselves in terrible situations because they are afraid to make a decision either way. I also think that instead of “pro-life” people blasting pictures of bloody fetus’ on posterboard and running around like lunatics, is counterproductive and energy that should be focusing on reducing the amount of abortions that are performed. Those picket signs don’t help anyone and if anything it just creates a bigger divide between “pro-life” and “pro-choice”. While of course they are two completely different views on the topic, I think there is still one common goal that should be focused on: Providing the much needed birth control, sex education, and rescources to young woman who are in desperate need.
We shouldn’t be focusing on “when life begins” because that is something that everyone on this earth will never agree on.
- 6 years ago
Haven’t read thru the entire thread. Skimmed it.
Just feel like throwing my 2 cents in nonetheless:
I’m always saddened when women tell women what they can and cannot do with their bodies. it’s a hearkening back to patriarchal and mysogynistic norms that so many women have sacrificed to try and shed for their daughters and so forth. I wish we would just support each other, listen to each other and think together about what it is that we need to do to move ourselves forward as women.
I don’t know what the “right” answer is–I don’t like the very idea of abortions bc it makes me sad to think that there’s women who turn to this option as their best option, that we as a society have let women down by creating a mystical yet disheartening dichotomy between motherhood and the lack thereof. I think the right answer is that there is no “right” answer. I have yet to meet a woman who was happy to have an abortion, that was happy to have to walk into a clinic or hospital knowing she’d be leaving it as a different woman than she came in; however, despite this reality, I cannot look at any woman in the face and deny her autonomy over her body and her life. I believe empowerment on the front end (with education and more open discussion of the issues at hand) of both women and men is what is needed to meet the aims both sides want: fewer abortions.
I’m glad to see this thread bc I think more of a dialogue and less of a monologue needs to be had on both sides of this debate.
- 6 years ago
@Ruby-Redshoes: + INFINITY TO YOUR ENTIRE POST
@eilean: Honestly, I have never heard such things done in a public school before. I can totally see how a young person could take away a possibly damaging message from those types of tactics. There is a difference between encouraging abstinence and shaming them into it. And saying that “dateable girls know when to shut up”……WOW……
I think that when done properly though, there is nothing wrong with encouraging abstinence. What I mean by this, is that I think children and young adults need to know that its okay to NOT have sex. I feel like we live in a hypersexualized culture that actually sexualizes our children. For example:clothes shopping with my daughter. My daughter will be 17 soon. Even when she was a young girl and preteen, trying to find modest summer clothes for her was difficult. Everything was daisy duke shorts and middy halter tops. I wasn’t trying to dress her in long dresses and bonnets. I just wanted to find a pair of shorts that at least covered the top of her thigh….remember, I’m not talking about an older teenager. This was a young girl. And does anyone on this thread remember the thong under wear marketed to 6,7,8 year old girls? There was backlash and they were removed from the market…..but why should a 7 year old be wearing a thong? Who thought this was appropriate?
Our culture is telling our children that their self esteem should be coming from their sexuality. This of course leads to a multitude of other problems, such as body image issues and poor self esteem.
On a related note, it not just our girls. American pop culture tells young men that the only way to prove they are masculine is to be sexually active, and with as many partners as possible.
No, I don’t think that we should be shaming our kids about their sexuality. That is unproductive. But I don’t think their sexuality should be exploited either. American pop culture exploits their sexuality because sex sells. This needs to stop.
- 6 years ago
“We shouldn’t be focusing on “when life begins” because that is something that everyone on this earth will never agree on.”
Yes. I think if we can decrease the need for abortions, there will be less abortions. Win-Win.
“I’m glad to see this thread bc I think more of a dialogue and less of a monologue needs to be had on both sides of this debate.”
Yes. I just wish it could happen IRL as well.
- 6 years ago
- Wedding: October 2014
@cls9q: I actually think this topic is useful. I’m 100% strongly pro choice and I agree that it’s nobody’s choice to make but the individual’s. But a lot of people don’t believe that, and this topic is about holding them accountable for that belief. If you’re going to campaign for the life of would-be-babies over that of the mother’s then you’d damn well better have some ideas about how we can help those babies and their mothers to have a decent quality of life.
- 6 years ago
- Wedding: June 2013
What does the meaning of “ABORTION IS MURDER” mean to you people. I don’t give a crap if you agree with me. I really don’t. You DO NOT have the right to MURDER! Yet somehow i’m the bad guy because i won’t let you make the decision to murder if you want. Babies the second they exit the birth canal are illegal to murder. But hey if you just walk into planned parenthood they’ll happily stick a sharp tool into the babies head and pull it out and thats somehow okay? Exiting the birth canal isn’t what makes a baby a baby. This really isn’t rocket science.
I don’t give a rats ass about choice or whats inconvenient when you find yourself pregnant. You are carrying a living human child. Its a life. So yes someone says choice and i don’t bother reading the rest of it because all it tells me is you are okay with murdering someone who is an inconvenience to you.
No pregnant lady walks around and says “i’m having a clump of cells” or “i’m having a parasite”… its a BABY!!! If its wanted then people relish over its developing body or its heartbeat but if its not wanted then they just kill it without even thinking twice just literally because they don’t WANT it. Cry me a freaking river. You wanted to have sex then you should be an adult and realize sex makes babies and those are the freaking consequenses. Your “feelings” don’t suddenly make it okay to brutally murder your own flesh and blood.
- 6 years ago
- Wedding: October 2014
@Kate0558: since you are so up in arms how about you go and donate your time and resources to care for these babies born to women that can barely take care of themselves.
Instead of spouting endless drivel, come up with ways to fix the problem. Have passion that.
Your tunnel vision focusing on abortion makes me dizzy. There is a bigger issue here.
- 6 years ago
@Kate0558: I agree with your point of view. I think that where the prolife movement is being stalled at is what a pp said about the argument of when life begins. The majority of these women will never be convinced that life begins at conception, or that there is something morally wrong with what they are doing. I don’t know about you, but I know I will NEVER be convinced that its anything else. Here is where the stalemate is:
Prolife: Every abortion is the loss of a child and the taking of a human life
Prochoice: Every abortion is the removal of bodily tissue that has the potential to be a life and a child.
I think that it is fine to continue the dialogue of this debate. I think it is important to continue the dialogue of this debate. But I, as a pro life woman, want to take it further. I want to find where both sides can work together on having less abortions. Yes, the ideal for me is no abortion what so ever. None. Zero. That will always be my goal. I believe that there are prochoice people who want this as well. The question is, how can both sides get there? That is what this thread is about.
The topic ‘PRO-LIFE BEES: What happens if the clinics close? Where do we go from there?’ is closed to new replies.