Post # 167
@Bridey77: It’s more of a virgin-whore dichotemy – women are either expected to be a perfect virgin, or extremely active. Both expectations are damaging.
The cult of virginity is reflected more in states that do abstinence only education, and a lot of evanelical circles (remembering evangelicals make up almost 30% of the US population). Things like mass “purity” pledges (incidentally, I HATE the term purity being used to refer to not havign sex). It is likely to be very regional as well. I have definately come across both in my (short) time living here.
Post # 168
@Kate0558: Actually, I have freinds who believe abortion is murder who I respect and have time to discuss with – we look at ways we can reduce abortions for all. They are smart and educated, and recognise that the best way to resuce abortiion isn’t to judge and condemn people who have compassion for women.
What I found paticulary distasteful was your almost gleeful attitude about women suffering through coat hanger abortion. Not a shred of commpassion or empathy there. You have no idea what drives a woman to do that (perhaps some else is forcing her, perhaps she is convinced her other children will starve otherwise). I personally would rather her not be in that situation in the first place than have some perverse form of satisfaction at her being backed into that corner.
This is the statement I am referring to, btw “If women want to go to the side of the road to have some creep kill her baby with a hanger then that’s her choice. I thought you pro abortionists would support her Choice.”
I also sincerely hope you aren’t of a religion that preaches compassion and grace. That would reflect really badly on my friends who live their lives to embody those principles, and who choose to be against abortion and fight it through those principles, rather than spewing hate. Incidentally, I suspect these friends, through being gracious, compassionate and logical, have probably prevented more abortions than hatred ever will.
Post # 169
@Kate0558: Actually, there are doctrines of justifiable homicide, so sometimes you do have the legal right to murder. Also, I can’t emphasize enough how little you are doing to help your side of the debate; people like you (and the “love” you claim to offer) are why people like me shudder at the mere mention of Christianity. This makes me sad, as it is unfair to people like Brielle and Bridey77. I take up the question others have asked you: how do you intend on helping the unsupported, unprepared, abandoned mothers and children of this world?
Post # 170
@Kate0558: You do realize that rape is a thing, right? Or are you in the camp that believes you can’t get pregnant if it’s legitimate rape? What if the pregnancy is a danger to the mother’s health? What if the woman can’t financially support it? What if the child’s father that you’re so intent on notifying is abusive to the mother and child? What if she has no desire whatsoever to be a mother, and will resent the child for the rest of her life?
What if you got off your high horse and offered some constructive ideas about how to reduce abortions and provide resources for the women you think should be forced to have babies? There’s a whole world out there outside of your personal experience. Maybe you’ve been lucky enough to never worry about your financial situation or be in a difficult situation that would be inappropriate for children, but that isn’t the reality for everybody.
I will always be pro-choice because I don’t think you can possibly know everyone’s situation.
Post # 171
@Kate0558: It’s much more common for pregnant women to say they are having a baby and not that they have a baby, future tense is used.
Medically and legally, it matters. Eggs are alive, sperm are alive. We kill living cells all the time. It doesn’t all equate to murder.
Abortion isn’t murder.
Post # 171
@Bridey77, @futuremrskirkman, @Brielle, @LoggerHead91207, @jb20, @Kate0558: I realize I am late chiming in. I had noticed this thread, but didn’t read it, and stayed away from WB for a while because when on this topic, I can get really emotional and had cried for several days after reading posts from a similar thread and it was taking an emotional toll on me. I am not trying to get anyting started, or argument riled up again.
The only reason I am back is because I want people to know that there are programs in place as an alternitive to Planned Parenthood. These programs are Hope Pregnancy and Guiding Star. I would also like to point out that while yes, Texas is shutting down Abortion Clinics, Guiding Star clinics are being opened across Texas. I am not as informed about Hope Pregnancy as Guiding Star, but GS provides a place for pregnant women to stay if they have no where to go, on top of providing women’s health care and education; they just do not perform abortions. I would like to see these type of clinics in my home state.
@Ruby-Redshoes: I have noticed that we certainly don’t see eye to eye in alot of threads. I just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading your post and value your input.
That being said, these programs are great, but their is still a lot of room for improvement. I will not be checking back in for replies. I’m a lot like Kate0558 and get too emotionally involved. I just wanted to help spread hope.
Post # 172
annb9: YESSS A MILLION TIMES YES! I am pro-life, however, I feel that the sex education system is SEVERELY LACKING. I never could have approached my parents about it either, which I think is a giant blunder in society as well. Whether the children approach their parents about sex or not, they’re still going to have sex. So these parents who get furious over their kids talking about having sex are STUPID. Just because the parents tell them to shut up about it, doesn’t mean they’re not going to do it. I think if our sex education programs were more extensive, we wouldn’t really have such a big debate of pro-life vs pro-choice anymore.
Post # 173
If anyone is curious as to why the court system ruled to shut down these abortion clinics in texas, you can read an article on it here:
Federal Court Deals Blow to Planned Parenthood’s War on Women
Post # 174
- Wedding: October 2013 - Dalhousie Castle
I think this is an interesting and very refreshing thread. Cudos to OP for her attitude! I definitely think this idea of just shutting down abortion clinics will lead to all the problems OP stated.
I’m pro-choice and it’s something I really struggle with because I don’t like the idea of extinguish the potential of a new life, BUT, for me it comes down to the fact that it’s just not right to dictate to a women how her body will be used and force her to carry and raise a baby she doesn’t want. (I’ll say something about adoption below)
It seems to me that a lot of “pro-life” stuff, and I’m not saying this is anyone on here, don’t really care that much about unborn babies, but care more about punishing a woman for having sex. It seems that a lot of the same people that want to close abortion clinics also want to make it more difficult for women to get access to contraception. To me, this seems like they are trying to force their idea of morality on women by making it difficult to have sex without “consequences”. To me, it’s totally wrong to play with the life of a baby in this way. If they were really wanted to prevent abortions then they should be promoting safe sex and contraception use to avoid it in the first place.
– Educate, educate, educate teenages about safe sex and contraception.
– Provide free contraception to anyone that wants it.
– If they want to keep the baby then there should be support to ensure that both mother and baby have access to healthcare, good nutrition and childcare. Knowing that raising the baby will not place them in abject poverty and result in them losing their whole life might lead to more people wanting to keep the baby.
To me that’s the best ( and by far the cheapest to the taxpayer) way to minimize the need for killing unborn babies.
Adoption: I know a lot of people say, well the mother can just give up her baby for adoption. This seems incredibly unfair and judgemental because the mother still has to carry the baby, possibly face the social stigma of being pregnant, and then give up a baby they have just carried and birthed. At that point the hormones and pregnancy cannot help to take a toll physically and psychologically on the mother. It’s again, just not fair to force a person to go through that if they don’t want to.
Post # 175
I just wrote a lengthy term paper on the subject of comprensive sexual education vs. abstinence only education. Abstinence only education was government funded for awhile, with monetary incentives given to schools who chose this method of sexual education. However, with that came high rates of unplanned teenage pregnancies in those schools. It’s all very interesting.
I’ll probably get yelled at for not reading the original question so… yes, clinics should stay open. Education and contraception are key. Education is a difficult thing for many schools to mandate and in my school there were always a few students who had their parents ‘opt them out’ of the class on reproduction/sex education/puberty. Women should be able to choose what they do with their own bodies whether I agree with their choice or not.
Post # 176
Kate0558: I just have to LOL at you. Why do some pro-lifers think that every single fetus is going to grow up into a wonderful person just because they are birthed?
Bringing a life into the world is more than just pushing a child out of my vagina. The parenting that follows is what creates a good person.
honestly, there are many people who abort because they don’t have the means to raise a child, they don’t have the tools to create a “good person,” or an environment that would provide that baby with a happy existance.
And don’t shout “adoption! adoption!” because there are far too many children sitting, waiting, living AWFUL lives waiting to be adopted.
I know I’ll get scolded for going OT, but the attitude you post with is just awful, and does not help your “cause” at all.
Post # 177
Closing abortion clinics to lessen abortions is like closing grocery stores so people don’t get fat. We don’t need less women’s health clinics, we need more. The more access young girls have to affordable contraceptive care & education, the less unwanted pregnancies there will be in the first place. I am a Christian, but I’ve gotten to a place where I am disgusted with the majority of Christians. They judge, and sit in their homes exclaiming how terrible abortion is, and how sad they feel for the unborn. They feel self righteous as they watch Fox News and vote to criminalize abortion. Meanwhile, they have not done one single thing to lessen abortions. It’s nice to see some women here who are. I am pro choice, not because I think abortions are awesome, nobody does. But I don’t believe it’s the governments job, nor do I think criminalizing abortion will be anything but a blow to poor women. I volunteer at a church in a rough area. I work with middle school girls. If you can help these girls see a future for themselves, that they are treasured and have a unique calling, they are less likely to get pregnant. I think any pro life person who isn’t doing something to help should keep their mouths shut. They are making us all look like Pharisees and not at all like Jesus. They will know us by our love.
sorry for the rant
Post # 178
I’m extremely pro-choice (and currently pregnant). But to answer the question: If the US were to reduce abortion, we basically would need to adopt the social policy system of a country like Sweden– sex ed, easy access to contraception, universal healthcare, public childcare, liberal parental leave policies. You know, those very same things that politicians who want to make abortion illegal fight tooth and nail against.
There is a big different between wanting abortion to be illegal (“pro-life”) and wanting to end abortion. If you think it’s best that clinics stay open and that abortion remain a safe option given the real world we currently live in, then guess what, you’re pro-choice! Currently, its those politicians who support abortion rights who are advocating for the policies that would prevent unplanned pregnancies and support those facing unplanned pregnancies and choose to give birth. So if you want to end abortion, rather than just make it illegal, as it currently stands, you should vote pro-choice.
It’s also worth noting that abortion will never go away. I’m still in my first trimester, terrified of miscarriage. If that were to happen, I’d want a D&C procedure (which is an abortion procedure) rather than a natural miscarriage, so that we could do genetic testing to see if there’s anything I could do differently in the future to improve my chances for a successful pregnancy. Some women going to abortion clinics are women who had wanted pregnancies, but who miscarried. There are also the tragic circumstances of birth defects, many of them incompatible with life, that are found around 20 weeks gestation. I can’t imagine anything more cruel than a law that tells a woman that she must continue a pregnancy where the baby, if it survives to birth, will die shortly thereafter. But those are the reality of the late term abortion bans (the vast, vast, vast majority of abortions happen before 12 weeks, it’s not as if women are suddenly saying, at 21 weeks after surviving first trimester nausea, etc., “hmmm, I think I’ll go get an abortion today, even tough it would have been so much cheaper, easier, and safer if I’d done it earlier la ti da!”).
Post # 179
HopefulForLittleOne: everything you just said. yes yes yes. best of luck with your pregnancy!
Post # 180
carmelbride103: ” I am a Christian, but I’ve gotten to a place where I am disgusted with the majority of Christians.”<br /><br />You sound like my husband. We just left our church due to some very hypocritical attitudes. Instead of casting their nets for the kingdom, and being happy to hear about people being interested in attending anywhere, they were more concerned with drafting other believers from other churches to that church……Huh????? There is much division in the body of Christ here in the U.S., and I’m not sure what the answers are. I believe that is why we don’t see the moves of God here that other countries see.
I think we come into problems when we try to turn Jesus into a politician. Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s and to God what is God’s.