(Closed) PRO-LIFE BEES: What happens if the clinics close? Where do we go from there?

posted 6 years ago in The Lounge
Post # 77
Member
4767 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

@Brielle:  and those who choose to advocate on behalf of abortion, and those who have chosen to perform abortions also do not truly  understand the ramifications what they are doing.

This is a very judgy comment, noit at all compassionate or supportive to say the least, it is quite franky downright insulting.

Which is all in all my point.  I know you guys feel as if you’re doing the right thing and saying the right thing, but with this subject it’s really easy to insult someone and this preachyness that “you don’t understand, I know best”  is really insulting.

Post # 78
Member
4767 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

@Bridey77:  Oh I see how how you get out of answering a tough question, feel free to PM if you don’t want to threadjack your one thread.

Post # 80
Member
341 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: May 2014

Shutting down clinics=back alley abortions=women dying when they don’t have to.

Abortion has been around for centuries. It’s not going away. The safest thing is for women to have a private medical procedure performed by a licensed physician.

You want to shut down clinics….because you want to prevent (what you call) murder… so then do you support women dying from having unsafe procedures?

Just how in the world does that make any sense? How is that “Pro-Life”???

 

Post # 82
Member
11481 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: May 2009

@Atalanta:  Please allow me to clarify that, in post 67, I was attempting to respond to your question as to how and why I, as a prolife Christian who believes that abortion is the taking of a human life, would still choose to love someone who has had an abortion.

I believed that such an answer required me to speak from my own, Christian, world view so as to explain why and how I do not see a conflict with this.

It was not at all my intent to be condescending.  I apologize — not  for my Biblically based world view and belief system, but, rather, for neglecting to adequately frame the context in which these particular comments were being offered.

 

Post # 83
Member
9950 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: December 2012

Ok, I’ve now read all the replies… and here is my take.

I am not going to address the argument of ProLife vs ProChoice cause that is an OLD ARGUMENT… and there is truly no RIGHT or WRONG ANSWER in my mind…

Because…

Until we’ve all walked a mile in the Woman’s Shoes, we SHOULD NOT JUDGE

As the saying goes… “There but for the Grace of God, Go I”

— — —

It all most definitely comes down to two things… EDUCATION & SCIENCE

From an Education POV, we need to be doing more to open the dialogue on Women’s Reproductive Health.

I am over 50, we have come a long way in my life time… Sex is now discussed more openly than ever.

That should OBVIOUSLY include Sexual Info for our Children / Teenagers.  KNOWLEDGE IS POWER as they say.  The kids who know the most about sex, are not the ones who are getting pregnant !!

Abstinence is indeed the safest and most complete form of BC…

BUT to stick our heads in the sand and ONLY teach Abstinence is short sighted.  If you believe in Abstinence for your kids (lol altho in reality you as a Parent have NO CONTROL over what your Teenage Kids do)… then this is the message that should be taught at home, and thru ONGOING FAMILY VALUES (be they religious or other).  You cannot teach Abstinence effectively after you Son has a wet dream, or your Daughter has a Period.  It has to have started LONG LONG BEFORE that point in time.

We have to STOP being fearful of educating our kids about sex.

That means Family Values and Religion aside… every kid deserves comprehensive Sexual Education… as part of their HEALTH Education.  Perod.

And that means explaining it all… how it works, how one gets pregnant, and how to prevent pregnancy, disease, etc.  That means access to BC if requested… backed up with COMPREHENSIVE INFO (preferably someone to talk to in person, have Questions answered etc without Judgement… BUT with EMOTIONAL GUIDANCE).

Because like it or not… Teenage Pregnancy effects us all.  It goes on to contribute / create a major element of the society we live in.  That is where the EMOTIONAL PART comes in as well… we need to tell kids that Sex has a HUGE EMOTIONAL COMPONENT… and altho their bodies may be capable of sex / having babies… maybe their hearts & minds aren’t there yet (and WHY)

Which brings us back to Abstinence.

So the EDUCATION needs to be BALANCED !!

— — —

Likewise… Women’s Health.

We need to do more at home to EDUCATE Women about our own bodies (and reproduction).

I notice a HUGE improvement in recent years in this area… and that is good… when I was married the first time (1980) no where was the type of info that women have access to now.

For example, WBee is truly amazing in this regard (maybe even more so than their Wedding Info).

I think it FANTASTIC that women here talk about all aspects of their Sexuality & Reproductive Health… this is a HUGE GAIN for woman kind.  And something that should be readily available to even younger women… as clearly we often read a topic where someone writes “I DID NOT KNOW THAT”… and it can be a pretty straight forward element about Sex (Reproduction, BC, The Act, etc)

Again EDUCATION is a good thing

— — —

And lastly… SCIENCE

Sometime in the future, I truly believe that this debate on Abortion will be a NON-ISSUE.

Shocking you say ???

Yup, I truly believe that science will make it a non-issue.

In my own lifetime we’ve come miles in “baby science”… back when I was born in the 1950s C-Sections were major operations, but they were relatively SAFE, for the first time due to the changes in medical procedures, cleanliness of hospitals, availability of drugs (including antibiotics etc).

Prior to that, many many women died either in childbirth itself if there were complications… or due to infection etc post op.

Then there is the fact that Babies can be viable outside of the womb sooner due to develops in medicine.  The current point is 22 Weeks (0 to 10%) and it increases after that point in time.

Then you have the NEW Science that is IVF… Which has only been around since 1978.  And the whole idea of “making a baby” outside of the womb began…

IVF has been a PHENOMENAL SCIENCE in the advancement of baby-making.

Now here is the reason that I say that Abortions will at some point in time become a thing of the past (well for the most part **)

Science will come so far that we’ll not only be able to take egg & sperm and formulate it into an Embryo in a petrie dish and put it into a Human as we do now with IVF…

BUT I predict that we’ll also be able to take a fertilized Embryo in the womb and take it out and transfer it into someone else.

(Equally as OUT THERE as the concept of IVF would have been for my Mother’s Generation… )

The Girl / Woman who ended up pregnant will be happy that she doesn’t have to face the prospect of having an unplanned “Baby”…

And someone else who has issues getting pregnant, will be able to have a Baby.

A true win-win

I believe that science will make this possible… based on how far we’ve come in regards to knowing more about Female Reproduction and Medical Advances in Baby-Making & Viability

** I truly don’t believe that most women are “comfortable” with the choice of Abortion (there may be some, but I’d say they are small minority).

I would say that the majority of those who seek out Abortions, feel trapped in a situation where they have few or NO OTHER CHOICE.  Society still judges women who have Pregnancies / Children out of wedlock… or due to circumstances (ie the 14 year old HS Student).  Women don’t opt to follow thru with their Pregnancies because if they do, they’ll still be judged, and in some cases even more harshly than if they had an Abortion… in so much as people don’t forget “She gave her first kid up for adoption”… OR “I heard she had an Abortion” etc.

And the stigma of that, PLUS the idea that having an Abortion is Murder in the minds of some … is part of the reason that such women are damned if they do, and they are damned if they don’t !!

And also part of the reason that sooo many women who have had an Abortion or gave up a child for Adoption go on to have mental health issues… GUILT

We need to stop that vicious cycle.

The answer lies in science.

Most women I believe, if given a choice… pure out Abortion, or Embryo / Fetus Transfer would choice the latter.  Especially so if they already felt they couldn’t have / support a baby… and considering Abortion, they’ve come to the conclusion that they don’t truly have a lot of “connection” with the Embryo / Fetus / “Potential” Baby

And by opting for a Transfer, they’d be actually helping out another Woman who cannot get pregnant on her own, BUT would prefer an infant over Adopting a child (and statisically this is a growing group in our Population…)

— — —

Until then…

I think everyone should get off their high & mighty horses no matter which side of the argument ProLife or ProChoice they are on…

And do something constructive… campaign for EDUCATION… cause in the interim between where we are now and Science

EDUCATION is our only hope to make Abortions less of a need.

— — —

PS… As well I’d like to make it clear that Abortion is not as it is often seen a ONE TYPE OF WOMAN ISSUE

It is an issue that cuts right across all facets of life.  It is for sure the teenager that we all envision, but it can also be… the highly sexually active 20 something, or an addict (two more stereotypes)…

BUT it also can be the Mom who found herself in an Ooops situation… that got pregant shortly after having another baby (the number of times I’ve heard “But I thought I couldn’t get pregant while I was breastfeeding” )

OR the Older Woman… who’s periods are a total mess because she’s Premenopausal…

So we SHOULD NOT BE SO SMUG TO JUDGE

It truly can happen to ANYONE.

As Women we need to be more supportive of each other… and the girls & women that come after us

 

Post # 84
Member
341 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: May 2014

@Bridey77:  I did. So if you know that would happen…how do you justify it as someone who is “Pro-Life”.

Post # 85
Member
5188 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: February 2013

@This Time Round:  +10000 and applause

I hope that science does someday eliminate this debate.

As for sex ed, it should be a no brainer. Biology, to put it bluntly, makes us horny. You can’t use religion to make people not want sex. My mother use to give condoms to my brother and I when we hit a certain age without having to ask her for them. She’d stick them in a drawer, a purse, whatever. And guess what? They were put to use! The sex probably couldn’t have been prevented for a hormone driven teen but a pregnancy or std could.

Post # 86
Member
4767 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

@This Time Round:  

The Girl / Woman who ended up pregnant will be happy that she doesn’t have to face the prospect of having an unplanned “Baby”…

And someone else who has issues getting pregnant, will be able to have a Baby.

A true win-win

EEEK and LOL at the same time. no not at all.  If I were to have an abortion I would def not want it implanted in another women.  Plus then you need equal ammount of women who want to get implanted as women who want an abortion.  Win-win it is not. far far from it…

Post # 87
Member
403 posts
Helper bee

Some of these comments are hilarious. So many people are “pro life” until the life is actually you know, BORN, into a poor and hopeless existance. Then where the fuck are they?

Post # 88
Member
9950 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: December 2012

To @Atalanta: umm, if you read that part of my reply… you also read the **

You would be in that column. 

As I said, Transfer, wouldn’t be the ONLY Choice

No doubt, Abortion would still exist… just given a choice more people would not opt for it

(I truly believe this having talked over this topic a gazillion times since my teens with a wide scope of people from many walks of life)

I stand by that belief, as someone who has seen both sides of this struggle argument (ProChoice vs ProLife) in my lifetime and having been a teen in a timeframe when Abortions weren’t readily available to the masses like they are now.

I don’t believe anyone would want to roll back the clock… to a time when Abortions weren’t available / hard to come by

That just meant MORE HEALTH ISSUES for Women (Death, Botched Up Abortions, Effed Up Future Reproduction Chances etc)

As for the Math…

If EDUCATION goes up (which I also talked about) then Unwanted Pregnancies go down.

That can be bore out by Statistics.

In Countries that have extensive SEXUAL EDUCATION there are fewer Unwanted Pregnancies… and in particular Teenage Pregancies 

 

Post # 89
Member
363 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: July 2013

@Bridey77:  I really like your attitude and opinions, I find that when I talk to pro-life people they generally don’t have any realisations about what would actually happen if clinics just closed, like u said black market abortions and more due to unable to talk about it. I’m glad u realise there is a massive need more education, it’s one of the biggest preventatives when it comes to unplanned pregnancies, especially for younger people. 

I think the points in this article show many points not realised by people i found it to be very interesting 

What if Abortion Were Illegal?

Post # 91
Member
403 posts
Helper bee

@Bridey77:  Yes, which is why the comments that followed are so funny/sad. 

The topic ‘PRO-LIFE BEES: What happens if the clinics close? Where do we go from there?’ is closed to new replies.

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