(Closed) Really interesting article on opposition to same-sex marriage

posted 5 years ago in The Lounge
Post # 3
Member
621 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: November 2012

@HisMoon:  I dont have much to add other than this is a very interesting point of view.

“Instead, the conservative/traditional view of marriage is grounded not in the pursuit of personal freedom or individual happiness or rights, but in gender essentialism – in the belief that the purpose of marriage is procreation and that woman’s highest role is as wife and mother.”

The world will not fall apart if two gay men get married, adopt, and run a household together. It will have no impact on your ability to run YOUR household in the manner you see fit. You can still preserve traditional gender roles under your own roof, if that is what you choose.

“Therefore, opposition to marriage equality is opposition to equality.” –exactly

Im curious to see what others think.

Post # 4
Member
559 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: October 2014

I think this is bang on.  The notion that women might not need men to provide for them and their children, that gender isn’t ingrained but in fact a group of socially-constructed behaviours is really a threat to conservative values.  I was waiting for someone to make the connection, and that author did so very well.  This is the same rhetoric that surrounds how conservatives talk about trans* individuals as well, and why gender neutral anything can be such a bee in their bonnets.  For people with this kind of mindset, gender is absolutely essential and unchanging, and they will use whatever support they can muster for it, no matter how dubious.

Post # 5
Member
776 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

Personally, I think anything that would imply, directly or indirectly, that a woman’s highest purpose is wife and mother removes so many freedoms from the woman. You no longer become a woman of your own right, but you become a mother first. I am definitely not cool with that:

The sentiment may seem innocuous, but there’s a danger in returning to an ideal where women’s most important identity is relational rather than individual. If we want equality, women with children would be better served calling themselves people first, moms second.

 

Post # 6
Member
1465 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

I personally think some have gotten so caught up with what someone else’s choices are. Why is it something that should be debated and criticized based on someone’s views of what society’s preception is on family? A family consist of parent or parents who want to love and nuture child/children into people that will one day be openminded,productive, and loving members of society.

I resent them equating being gay/lesbian to the struggle for civil rights like somehow they are similiar. I am speaking as a Black American/Cherokee Indian and I can say they definitely are not similiar my race is not something I can hide or decide to come out about. Our struggles are not based on a lifestyle our history is of not being equal purely because society sees you as less than in every aspect (sorry for going off topic a little). 

Post # 8
Member
1465 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

@HisMoon:  I totally agree with you within the first paragraph. You mentioned that this article is a civil rights issue and it is not about race you are right again.

I mearly went off topic because when I turn on the TV I hear the comparison and there is no comparison. They are fighing for a lifestyle and their civil right are being violated in terms of parenting, healthcare, equality, and spousal rights.

Our civil right are violated for different reasons and I resent the comparison because it minimizes our struggle we dont have a choice about our race it is not a lifestyle. I have never cared what anyone’s sexual preference is because what is important to me is if they are a good person.

 

Post # 9
Member
44 posts
Newbee
  • Wedding: July 2013

@niasg1:  please stop saying it’s a “lifestyle” and a “choice”. I know you mean no harm, but the language you are using implies a whole bunch of stuff that the lived experiences of gay people — not to mention, y’know, science — says to be false. 

Are race and sexual orientation exactly the same thing? Of course not. But pointing out the many, many parallels is terribly instructive, given that there are few civil rights issues that have actually had major social and legal shifts over the past hundred years. 

Post # 10
Member
1465 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

@RoseVelvet:  You are correct they are born that way…but what point I am trying to make is stop comparing the two there is no comparison.

Post # 11
Member
44 posts
Newbee
  • Wedding: July 2013

@niasg1:  No, it’s not the same thing — nor is sexism, anti-Semitism, etc. But your assertion that “there is no comparison” makes it sound like you are really minimizing the effect that legalized, institutional discrimination has on gay people.

 

Really, though, one kind of oppression doesn’t have to win over another kind. Why make it a competition? I am sure that Matthew Shepard’s mom and Trayvon Martin’s mom don’t feel too differently about what happened to their sons.

Post # 12
Member
1465 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

@RoseVelvet: That is not the way I met it but that is the way you are taking it. I dont know why you dont seem to understand my point. I am referring to the fact that if they choose to hide they could. The system is designed so they dont have to, but I resent a comparison being made. 

I have never made it a point to think that any form of discrimination is less oppressive than the other but I dont feel there should be a comparison made because there isnt.

Post # 14
Member
4659 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: August 2013

Undecided I guess it’s interesting, in the way that any piece writing about excuses for closed-minded bigotry could be interesting. I mean, I guess you do have to figure out where the roots are if you want to spray it down with RoundUp.

Post # 15
Member
1077 posts
Bumble bee

@Bebealways:  +1, I felt the same way. This is what I always think of:

Post # 16
Member
1465 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: November 1999

@HisMoon:  You are right why should they, but you dont seem to understand when my people were being shot, hanged, and sprayed with water where were the gays/lesbians. We stood alone in the fight so that every race/creed has every opportunity to have the same rights as everyone else. I as a black woman understand the struggles gays/lesbians face everyday are similiar to my own but to compare them is wrong. 

Of course it is about everyone having the same rights as everyone else…and when I made the statement I said that I am sorry for going off topic. So to compare the two I think is wrong.

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