Religion and government

posted 2 months ago in The Lounge
Post # 15
Member
229 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: April 2018

techmom :  I know! I was objecting to the negative way OP mentioned Sharia law.

 

Sorry if it didn’t come across that way!

Post # 16
Member
229 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: April 2018

APancakePrincess :  i am non-religious and pro-life.  There are lots of people who are.  

Post # 17
Member
380 posts
Helper bee

rosadiaz :  

I guess the question would be then why does life matter so much  when it’s not even aware of it’s exsistence? It’s more like a plant than an animal until 17 weeks and that’s being generous. 

 

Post # 19
Member
541 posts
Busy bee

People who think religion has a place in government assume it will be their religion in power. Ask them to imagine how they’d feel having to obey someone else’s religious doctrine that didn’t align with their own. 

 

Post # 20
Member
1043 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: May 2019

skunktastic :  So the left makes bills that imply it’s okay to off a baby as it’s shooting out the door if you happen to change your mind about it. 

I’d like to see some proof of this, from a non-biased news source.  Considering that you have previously accredited Winston Churchill’s famous speech to Maxine Waters and claimed she was trying to use it to incite violence, I’m skeptical.

Post # 21
Member
6360 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: June 2015

xiexie :  I am 100% unsure what you are talking about.  Did Waters quote him or something?  I know at some point I referred to this speech (and I pulled the text from CNN, not Fox): “Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere. We’ve got to get the children connected to their parents,” Waters said at the Wilshire Federal Building, according to video of the event. but I doubt that was a Churchill quote and it’s certainly inciting.

Regarding your other question, I am most definitely using hyperbole to express myself, much as I did for the bills we are actually discussing right at the moment.  No one wrote a bill that says “You can kill a baby shooting out the vag” because that’s ridiculous.  However, from The Hlll (I don’t know which way that leans): “In a video that went viral this week, bill sponsor Kathy Tran acknowledged that the legislation would allow a woman who is dilating to request an abortion if a doctor determined that childbirth would impair her mental health.

“It would allow that, yes,” Tran said in response to questions from House Majority Leader Todd Gilbert (R) during a committee hearing.”

To me, that is equally disturbing, barring the most extreme of situations, giving birth isn’t going to impact your mental health that badly – you can give away the child and otherwise should have thought of it about 7 months sooner – luckily this particular bill didn’t make it out of committee. 

I know it’s a fun fad on here for some people to think I’m a horrible person and that 50% or more of the people around them are horrible as well.  I frankly don’t give a shit anymore.  Despite what you’re probably thinking, I’m not for either of these types of bills, both pro or anti-abortion.  I’m a moderate, who is seen as far right because that, too, is a popular thing to do these days. I’ll continue to express my opinion and hope that common sense will prevail again on all sides.

Post # 23
Member
9573 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: City, State

100% agree with you. Imagine if there were more open and not closeted Satanist or Wiccans serving in high seats in the government – the outrage and fear would be amazing to behold.

crustyoldbee :  

Post # 24
Member
706 posts
Busy bee

rosadiaz :  Now I’m really curious. I’d like to understand your position on abortion since ‘life begins at conception’ is primarily religiously driven. I’m an atheist and like most folks, I hold a nuanced position on abortion that the current political discourse may not capture.

Life and the rights associated with it, certainly do not start at conception because life at this stage is so heavily dependent on the mother. In cases where the pregnancy is unwanted, the rights of the embryo conflict with the rights of the mother. These abortions typically happen very early on.

And, in the case of rare and fatal genetic disorders that are caught late in the process, the suffering the fetus will go through at a later developmental stage justifies termination before the fetus gets to that stage. 

In short, there are compelling reasons at every stage in pregnancy to ensure that they are legal! 

 

Post # 25
Member
458 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: May 2014

For the record, nobody LIKES abortion. No one is like, hell yes, contraception plan B! But the point is that you don’t have to like it or get one, but don’t prevent other people from making their own decisions about it.

Additionally, the right is dripping in irony when they want to run around touting, “gun laws don’t prevent criminals from buying guns!” but abortion laws will stop women from getting abortions? Unfortunately I think we’ve long forgotten the days of pre-Roe v. Wade and guess what…abortions were just far more unsafe for both baby and mother.

I certainly believe in a separation of church and state, to answer the OP.

Post # 26
Member
6360 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: June 2015

SoccerBee86 :  Additionally, the right is dripping in irony when they want to run around touting, “gun laws don’t prevent criminals from buying guns!” but abortion laws will stop women from getting abortions? 

this is actually a really great point. Neither will prevent anyone from breaking the law if desperate enough. They’ve effectively proven it already with gun laws in major cities. I wish they’d leave us all the hell alone, despite my personal views on each topic. 

techmom : my husband and I were just having this discussion. We enjoy debating topics we don’t agree on and abortion is one of them. If she feels the same as he does with regard to that comment, she’s meaning life in a literal sense: true it can’t sustain itself but the cluster of cells is a living cluster. Life, in this case, doesn’t mean sentience it just means organic matter that isn’t dead and has its own genetic code. You can’t deny that it’s alive in the biological sense, I suppose. Which then dragged out debate around to personhood instead, because it’s not that useful a point in the long run. 

Post # 28
Member
4698 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: September 2018

soexcited123 :  Short answer: the heartbeat bill has nothing to do with religion.  Long answer: as a Christian who believes in St Augustine’s thoughts that “we should not leave an interpretation of scripture until we have found compassion in it” I do not believe that the so called heartbeat bill is founded on Christian beliefs. That said, Christians have different beliefs and I identify as socially liberal. I believe in Virtue Ethics. And love. I’m pro choice.

Post # 30
Member
930 posts
Busy bee

soexcited123 :  US was founded on separation of church and state…its sad that they are trying to oveturn Roe vs Wade. Right to privacy. 
Wonder whats next..

Post # 30
Member
706 posts
Busy bee

skunktastic :  It sounds like in your argument with your husband, you were making the key point. It’s about personhood.

While, to some, it may seem evident that life begins the moment the sperm and embryo fuse, the legal question of what to do with this life relies on its viability, personhood, and all the associated rights. It then becomes a practical problem of which scenario causes the least suffering. An embryo isn’t capable of suffering, but a 14 year old is! And if that 14 year old were forced to have a baby she didn’t want, that’s likely to lead to a scenario that is less than optimal for both her and her child. 

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