(Closed) So frustrated with religion right now *long rant*

posted 8 years ago in Interfaith
Post # 3
Member
350 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: January 1991

@Miss Emily Marie:

First, let me say that I feel your pain, I really do. But you have to recognize a key issue here:  Catholic priests are not allowed to co-officiate a wedding.  That is not possible and is a violation of Church rules. 

The reason for this is that the Catholic Rite of Marriage directly comes from the Sacrifice of the Mass.  As such, it is holy.  To chop it up, add parts in the middle, remove parts, incorporate non-Catholic tradition, and/or to have a non-Catholic co-preside over the ceremony would not uphold the sanctity of the Rite (“profane” is the word technically used).  While I understand that you don’t want to do this for the purpose of attacking Catholicism, it’s none-the-less problematic.  Think of asking a Rabbi to participate in part of Sunday Mass.

So what do you do?  You basically have four options:

1.  You can get married in a Catholic church using the Catholic Rite of Marriage.  This is always an option.  You cannot be denied a Catholic wedding because your Fiance is Jewish and anyone that tells you otherwise is lying.  Tell your priest that you’d like a “Dispensation from Disparity of Cult” and you can have this.

2.  You can get married in a Jewish wedding ceremony with a Catholic priest “witnessing” the ceremony.  Under this option, you get married by a rabbi but a priest will come to the wedding and witness it.  The priest will not participate at all, but at the end, will come up and give you a Catholic blessing.  If the rabbi will allow, you can incorporate some Catholic symbolism into the wedding to make it more of an interfaith wedding.  Tell your priest that you’d like a “Dispensation from the Canonical Form of Marriage” and you can have this.

3.  You can get married outside the Catholic Church, then can have a Catholic wedding afterwords.  This is really not a preferred option as a Catholic, but it’s technically allowed.  It would be a sin to have sex between the non-Catholic wedding and the Catholic wedding.  Tell your priest that you’d like to “Convalidate a Wedding” and you can have this (though he’s probably going to try and talk you into #2 since this is sort of a loop hole and more trouble than it’s worth).

4.  You can not get married in the Catholic Church.  Just find some non-Catholic minister to co-preside with the rabbi and have a wedding.  This would separate you from the sacraments and you should not present yourself for communion, however, until you’ve met with a priest and resolve this.

But if you’re going to follow Option #4, be very careful.  Some people claim to be a “Catholic priest” that aren’t.  Either they’re part of a schismatic group (like SSPX) and cannot officially marry you or they’re excommunicated (like a “Woman priest”).  Hiring a schismatic priest will mean that your marriage is invalid, hiring an excommunicated person could mean that you’ll be automatically excommunicated.

Post # 4
Member
350 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: January 1991

@Miss Emily Marie: And let me also say that your wedding isn’t be undervalued, it’s the idea of a wedding co-presided by a priest and a rabbi that’s being dismissed.  There are unfortunately a LOT of couples that go to priests and, for lack of a better word, demand that the priest co-preside with a rabbi for an interfaith ceremony.  The priest simply can’t do that.  It’s like asking the priest to cancel the 5:00 pm Saturday Anticipation Mass because you want that time for a wedding.  It’s just not possible.

If you go back into the priest’s office, and tell him that you would like to obtain a Dispensation from Form because you’re marrying a Jewish person, you’ll get a very different response than if you ask for him to co-preside.

As for the actual ceremony, you might want to consider a Jewish ceremony that also includes Catholic symbolism, then having the Catholic blessing to end the ceremony.  That’s the closest you’ll get to an interfaith ceremony without having to defect from Catholicism.

Post # 5
Member
6572 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: February 2010

are you open to having a friend officiate? my brother is jewish and his wife is not. they had a good friend who is a cantor officate and they were able to incorporate everything they wanted from both religions into the wedding.

Post # 6
Member
860 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: May 2011

I don’t know what area of the country you are in… but my advice to you is to look harder.

My Fiance is Jewish and I am technically Catholic.  We found a rabbi to marry us.  A conservative or orthodox rabbi would never do it though.  And there are 2-3 priests in our area (Baltimore/DC) that have co-officiated with this rabbi and will co-officiate. 

FI’s mother is Jewish and his dad is Catholic.  They got married in the late 70s with a rabbi and a priest.  Now, I think it was really hard for them to find someone… but they did it.  Don’t lose hope.

Feel free to PM me if you want this rabbi’s name.

Post # 7
Member
350 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: January 1991

If you do find a “priest” to co-officiate, make sure you check with the diocese in your area to ensure that he’s a Catholic priest.  As I’ve mentioned, there are many imposters that will tell you they’re a “Catholic priest” then they’re using “Catholic” to mean “universal” and not Roman Catholic.

Post # 8
Member
1184 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: August 2011

i feel your pain–trying to plan an interfaith wedding is making me want to abandon all religion. we’re just having a rabbi (FI was born Catholic but never even had a first communion), but we couldn’t have the rabbi i grew up with as he is conservative. two resources i found helpful:

http://www.interfaithfamily.com/jml/index.php?option=com_civicrm&view=Profiles&Itemid=62

http://www.lcshj.org/officiants.html

i’ve heard that it is often easier to find a rabbi first, and they will be able to refer you to priests that they have co-officiated with in the past.

not sure what city you are in but i have names of rabbis that do interfaith weddings in the ny and dc areas if that is anywhere close to where your wedding is.

Post # 9
Member
350 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: January 1991

See below.  It is a illicit for a Catholic priest to “co-preside”. If someone offers to do this, I would immediately call your local diocese to make sure that the person is really a priest.  There any many people that call themselves a “Catholic priest” that are not.  There was a case here recently of a fake priest performing funerals and the diocese had him arrested and had to go “redo” all of the funerals.

 

Can. 1127 §1. The prescripts of can. 1108 are to be observed for the form to be used in a mixed marriage(…)

§2. If grave diffculties hinder the observance of canonical form, the local ordinary of the Catholic party has the right of dispensing from the form in individual cases, after having consulted the ordinary of the place in which the marriage is celebrated and with some public form of celebration for validity. It is for the conference of bishops to establish norms by which the aforementioned dispensation is to be granted in a uniform manner.

§3. It is forbidden to have another religious celebration of the same marriage to give or renew matrimonial consent before or after the canonical celebration according to the norm of §1. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the Catholic who is assisting and a non-Catholic minister together, using their own rites, ask for the consent of the parties.

 

Post # 10
Member
937 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: September 2010

MissEmilyMarie- as we’ve previously discussed, I completely understand EXACTLY what you’re going through.

Where in the country do you live? If you can’t find a rabbi who will perform, would you consider a cantor? In the Jewish faith, cantors are permitted to marry couples. We are having a cantor, and she is WONDERFUL. We are so happy to have her be part of our day. Let me know how I can help you.

Post # 11
Member
1701 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: October 2010

Religion is frustrating, especially when it is really dogmatic and conservative.  I can’t have an official Catholic wedding for a bazillion reasons I won’t go in to.  Keep looking for a rabbi.  There are many Reformed that would have no problems with a priest present.  There is also an organization called CITI Ministries which has a registry of official Catholic priests.  However, they are married.  Becoming a priest is a sacrament, so once a priest always a priest.  These gentlemen have left their CLERICAL duties because of their marriages.  Many of them will be willing to work with a rabbi.  I am having one of these priests marry us, it will be a traditional and religious ceremony.  It is a good compromise for me, not sure if it is enough for you.

It is really sad when people (not God) get in the way of two faithful people joining together in His name.  Good luck with this!

 

Post # 12
Member
350 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: January 1991

@Georgia Bee: “Becoming a priest is a sacrament, so once a priest always a priest.”

 

NO!  Priests can be defrocked and stripped of their ordained rights (it’s called being “laicized” which means the priest has the same authority as you or I).  Even a bishop can lose rights. That sort of comment is an outright lie used by former priests to trick you.  The Sacrament of Holy Orders leaves an indelible mark, so once you’ve had the Sacrament, it can’t be undone.  But that doesn’t mean that a former priest (or bishop) has the authority to marry.

If you want to leave the Catholic faith, by all means be married by whoever you want.  But don’t fool yourself – if these individuals aren’t Catholic priests (regardless of what they tell you), you are separated from the sacraments and will need an entirely new wedding before possibly being returned to the Church.

 

 

 

Post # 13
Member
350 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: January 1991

I know that those sorts of fake priests are tempting to believe – after all they’re telling you what you want to hear and you want to believe it.  But keep in mind that the Catholic Church has it’s requirements for a purpose.  If you don’t know why they exist, feel free to ask a priest or send me a PM.

Post # 15
Member
350 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: January 1991

@Miss Emily Marie:  Glad to hear that.  The priest doesn’t have to give a blessing at the end if it’s a real problem.

If you’re having trouble getting a priest to return a call, make sure that you explain that it’s about a wedding and that’s all.  Also, you might want to try to church secretary since the priest or priests might be out of town on sabbatical and there’s a replacement priest. Good luck!

Post # 16
Member
125 posts
Blushing bee
  • Wedding: August 2012

@Miss Emily Marie — glad to hear things are working out.  Fiance are just beginning to plan a wedding – we don’t even have a date yet – but we’re looking for a rabbi (FI is Jewish, Reform) who would be willing to co-officiate with a Lutheran pastor.  It’s a little disheartening.  It’s important to us, though, so we’re going to keep trying to find one.

I put up another post about this, but if anyone knows of a rabbi or cantor in the Twin Cities area who might consider co-officiating at an interfaith wedding, please share his/her info!  I’d very much appreciate it. 

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