- This Time Round
- 5 years ago
- Wedding: December 2012
This is a Spin Off from the Fancy Restaurant Discussion and the baby that the Parents brought along because they couldn’t find a Sitter (the one they lined up cancelled)
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As I noted in my Reply in that topic, here in Canada we had such a case a year or so ago, and the Restaurant (a Wine Bar that served food as well) were taken to court by the Family that was told the 3 month old infant with them was not welcome.
The family took the Restaurant to the Human Rights Commission, and WON their case based on age discrimination.
This case much like the Restaurant in Chicago story… caused a HUGE uproar in the media because there are two camps on the subject.
1- People that believe that kids should be able to go anywhere as persons.
2- And people who believe that Establishments should be able to determine the rules surrounding their clientele and what type of “atmosphere” they are looking to provide to their Customers.
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I get that this is a fine edge… in so much as no one wants to see someone discriminated against if they truly have a disability / disadvantage in society
Certainly the Law is there to ensure that an Establishment cannot pick and choose who they wish as Patrons… (ie thinking history here… No Jews, No People of Colour etc).
Or that a person with Parkinsons or Turrets Syndrom (prone to shouting out) should be allowed to enjoy the same things in life as anyone else.
BUT where do kids fit into the equation ? It is a tough call.
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As @MarriedToMyWork: said with reply # 204 in the other topic:
I also think this insistence on bringing children everywhere could be taken as an indication of what some people have identified as an unhealthy child-centered culture in the USA (and elsewhere, but the USA is under discussion here).
There clearly is what I see as a woman in my 50s a shift in how people parent now.
Something that has made a radical shift since the mid 1900s (1950s & 60s)
When I was a small child the old saying “Kids should be seen & not heard” was very much the norm.
As a child of the time… I am the first to admit that sucked. There were a lot of adult only venues and activities that us kids didn’t have access to.
As shocking as it was… my parents put us kids to bed at 8 PM… and “their world” went on after that (Tv shows – Saturday Night Card Games with their friends etc)
As we grew up, we were introduced into the world of the Adults. The biggest milestone of which I recall we all looked forward to was being able to stay up later and later as a kid as I aged (9 PM, 10 PM, 11 PM, Midnight… and finally NO set bedtime when I got to High School… it was now my decision when I went to bed knowing that I had to get up the next day for school etc)
Adult things in life came over time… you grew into things at an age appropriate rate.
Then when I had my own kids (1980s), it was more a case of kids were out and about socializing more with the Adults… and there were more things in society directed specifically for kids / families… like Amusement Parks, Water Parks, Family Resort Vacations etc.
As a Parent of the time we loved having all these choices of where we could comfortably take our kids.. places that didn’t exist when we were kids.
We still tho had for the most part an understanding of what was and wasn’t appropriate for kids (ie my kids were not watching PG 13 Films when they were 7)
But now… some in this Generation of Parents (kids of the 80s etc), maybe perhaps because they grew up in an environment that was more open, they truly believe that if they can pay for it, then their kids should be able to go have unlimted access to EVERYTHING
That there should be Adult Only places / experiences seems to be lost now… and when someone defends the concept of Adult Only spaces, others yell Age Discrimination for the baby / child
(When infact, trust me the baby / child wouldn’t have probably the remote incling of wanting to go to these places / do these things on their own)
As a Mom for over 30 years, I want to say first and foremost that … I LOVE KIDS
But I also believe that there are places / things that are not appropriate for them as “children” for a variety of reasons…
I don’t want to sit in a nightclub or bar, and have babies & toddlers there. I don’t really want school age / teenagers there who might overhear… in so much as I have to curb my conversation to avoid swearing or talking about “adult topics”
I go to an Evening Performance of the Opera, Ballet etc… no I don’t want my enjoyment interupted by the child who is kicking my seat, or talking non-stop thru the event… or whining to go home to bed.
I fly first class (lol, I don’t cause I don’t spend that kind of money)… but if I did, I would yes probably be ticked to find a baby crying.
I go out to eat to a fancy restaurant (not a family restaurant) after 8 PM for a meal that costs me a lot, and I encounter a toddler runing around between the tables.
I go on a holiday, and stay at a Resort, Posh Hotel, or Luxury Cruise Ship… and find the Adult Pool Area has a family (or two) who have chosen to disregard the sign that says… “No one under 16”
YES, I am probably not going to be a happy camper.
The fact is… for me at least (and for a good many others) when I do these things it is not an everyday occurence… it is my hard-earned money that allows me to enjoy these things which are a wee bit of respite from the hectic world I live and work in.
Another words… I am paying for the atmosphere that the establishment advertises that they provide
(Show me an Print or Tv Ad where the Nightclub has a 14 year old in it sitting at the Bar – the Opera with an 5 year old Patron – the First Class Flight with an Infant – the Fancy Restaurant with the 2 year old running around – or the Luxury Cruise Ship Spa with an 8 year old)
So ya I am ticked, when I spend the money to make those wonderful restful moments in the ads come to life for me and find something very different.
Sadly, often the counter argument that I’ve seen on other discussion boards… or even witnessed a time or two in real life comes from the Parent’s with the following remarks:
I PAID GOOD MONEY TOO… AND IF I CAN AFFORD IT FOR THEM … then my kid should be able to enjoy it to… go everywhere that I choose
True or False ???