Post # 62
Funny story: My husband and his friends (all of whom are "good boys" that I trust) went to Vegas for his Bachelor Party in Vegas in February. When he got home, I didn’t press him for details since that was "his time" and I didn’t want to be a Nosy Nancy. To my surprise he told me (and this was verified by his friends) that he actually spent a lot of time TALKING to the strippers. He had a really great Best Man who filtered out any crazies from trying to entertain the groom and it seemed like they had fun without anything getting dirty or out of hand. They only saw strippers at a club and did not have any in-room entertainment…they were all too tired for that since they just stayed up for 48 hours straight!
Now I agree with Kylydia that it comes down to trust and knowing your man. My husband doesn’t frequent strip clubs but it was his Bachelor Party and his boys planned a variety of activities for this event that included seeing strippers. His friends aren’t shady and I trusted them to take care of my husband. Those girls at srtip clubs are WORKING. They aren’t there to steal your man. They are not whores. Some of these irrational crazy posts I have read on Weddinbee about this subject are fueled on fear; fears which come from ignorance coupled with "general knowledge" gained from pop culture like from movies and/or word of mouth antedotal stories. This post was very-well thought out and I appreciate the POV from someone who is concerned about Bachelor Parties. But like any event that combines alcohol and boobies, there is potential for things to get out of control. Remember though that Strip Clubs are controlled environments. There is very little trouble a man can get into in a club before his butt is bounced outside. Strippers at private in-room events may be a different matter. So it comes down to trust. 99% of the time, BP’s come and go without any major incidents. They are fun, your man moves on and he can look back at his Bridal Party with a smile when he is with his buddies. At the end of the day, he will still be the man who meets you at the end of the aisle on your beautiful wedding day and the Bridal Party will (or should be) the furthest thing from BOTH of your minds.
Post # 64
What you said here:
"I especially believe this in the context of sexuality, because I believe that a sexual relationship should be solely between two people, and anything that brings in other "people" (fantasy or otherwise) detracts from the sacred nature of that bond between those two. This includes (oh boy am I going to offend somebody with this…) strippers, prostitution, pornography, infidelity (emotional or physical)… anything that brings in a third party."
I actually find this statement to be pretty much an exact statement of my feelings on the matter, (outside of the fact that I’ve previously said pornography doesn’t bother me too much). Even outside of the context of Christianity, this concept applies to anyone who believes in monogamy. Extremely well put. I think it is an excellent point to make in response to people who say "I trust my Fiance and therefore he can do whatever he wants." I trust my Fiance to respect me and our monogamous relationship enough to keep other people out of it.
I hope no one has come out of the conversation here feeling judged. I began this thread because the bachelor party situation comes up frequently on the boards. I quickly realized there were lots of opinions out there, but it was hard to lay them all out there without coming across as rude or attacking. Thanks again for all the great responses we’ve heard. This has been a very enlightening thread for me, as far as learning what others’ thoughts are on the matter. My opinion remains the same 🙂
Post # 65
Wow…I go away for a long weekend with no computer access and THIS is what I come back to!! Holy crap. Ok, well so much has already been said but one of the girls on here PM’d me and asked why I hadn’t chimed in (HI! You know who you are), so I guess I’ll say something.
I really don’t mind if my Fiance goes to a strip club, bachelor party or not. For his bach party he’s going camping and I’m ALL about that, believe me. However, if he were to go to a strip club, I’d kind of roll my eyes and say "do what you want." I’m confident that he would be kind of uncomfortable with it anyway, and I know he’d think "Hmm, what is Emily going to think about this?" I know he’d tell me, and I know my reaction would be more like "that’s stupid" than "how DARE YOU!"
One time he did go to a strip club and he was waayyy too drunk and almost got arrested, so that was a time when yes, I was extremely angry. Not really about the strip club part, but about the near-arrest/too drunk part.
As for porn, I know my Fiance watches it, but not as much now that we’re living together. I know he watched it a lot when we were long distance, and it upset me a bit but I got over it. I actually like porn and want to watch it with my Fiance because I think it would enhance our sex life. And girls, if you don’t think he’s watching it, go check his internet history. You might be surprised
Not sure what all of this means or what type of person this makes me, but my feeling is that life is too short worrying about whether your fiance is going to a strip club for his bachelor party. I mean, even writing it just sounds petty in my opinion. I know some women have very serious concerns, and I respect that. We’re all different with different opinions/relationships/past experiences, etc. But in the grand scheme of things, is this really worth the worrying? My opinion might not be popular, but I stick by it.
Post # 66
I feel mostly how MightySapphire does. I don’t need to add a lot. And she hit my feelings about porn right on the nose. Porn can definitely become a problem or escape from a relationship for some people, but I think two people who are open and clear about their use of it is fine. If a couple has a great and completely fulfilling sex life together and sometimes they just want some "me time" for their own sexuality, I certainly don’t care. In oru relationship, we both need that.
When my Fiance and I talked about a bach party, he didn’t really care or show any interest at all in strippers. I personally would just prefer if he didn’t celebrate his bachelor status that way. The guy hasn’t been a "bachelor" for YEARS! Haha. The only thing he felt bad about was if his best man put all sorts of work & money into a party and then turn it all down. What’s he supposed to do? "No guys, I’m leaving." So we agreed he’d just talk to him beforehand and emphasize no strippers and I trust his friends, they’ll honor it. I doubt his best man would have even bothered. The two previous bach parties that my Fiance has had in his circle of friends involved poker and watching a fight or something. I have a lot of guy friends and honestly, they don’t even seem to be interested in doing the traditional strip club bach party.
Post # 67
I agree broadly with MightySapphire. I have been to a high end strip club, and to me its just not a big deal. Strippers in hotels or back rooms are all a big deal. A strip club itself, not so much. Before I met my husband, I thought I would be in the definitely no strippers for the bach party club. But I trust my now husband so completely and I know his morals, so it didn’t even occur to me to worry about it. In the end there was no strip club at all, but if there was, I knew for sure that he wouldn’t even come close to stepping over any line that I would be upset about.
And for all the ladies who think their guys don’t look at porn, unless they have a strong religious objection, they probably do. And I don’t really see it is a big deal, as long as it is not a big part of someone’s life.
Post # 68
@EAQ219 I would definitely not say it is petty to worry about other women giving your man a lap dance, whether the woman is working or not. I think every response on this board is an example of precisely why it is NOT petty.
Post # 69
All I’m saying is that I would hope most of us have bigger fish to fry and that worrying about some chick grinding up on your guy is not one of them. I’ve been to a strip club and have been bought a lap dance before, and let me tell you, it was one of the lamest things ever. Maybe the girl was different because I was a girl, but I think I at least have a better sense of what goes on at strip clubs since I’ve been to one.
Again, it’s just me and I don’t mean to belittle any of the opinions on here. I apologize for saying the word "petty." I probably could have found a better one to use. Clearly this is a touchy subject and one that many feel very strongly about. And you know what, I can respect that because I’ve always said that if you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything. So in that sense, I’m glad so many women are strong enough to voice their beliefs knowing that they might get criticized. And I’m glad this discussion hasn’t gotten out of control! Mr. or Mrs. Bee haven’t had to intervene at all!
Post # 70
- Wedding: November 2006 - Rockhouse Hotel
I don’t think it matters what other people outside of your relationship think. What matters is that the two people within the relationship clearly communicate what they’re comfortable with and not comfortable with. Hopefully this discussion can lead to a set of boundaries that the couple agrees upon. The discussion should be ongoing as the couple, their comfort zone, and their dynamics continue to evolve.
Post # 71
"All I’m saying is that I would hope most of us have bigger fish to fry and that worrying about some chick grinding up on your guy is not one of them."
Frankly, I can’t imagine a bigger fish 🙂
Post # 73
I mildly disapprove of strip clubs and am happy that it has never been an issue with my husband.
@amandopolis. The one thing I find strange about your posts here is that you don’t have a big problem with porn. But if objectification is the problem, how is porn not a problem? Porn involves paying women (and men) for actual sex, not just nude dancing. And porn, if you look at recent studies, is becoming increasingly violent towards women — much of the "hot" porn markets involve simulated rape-porn and other degrading activities. I find that while I mildly disapprove of strip clubs, I strongly disapprove of porn. I’m curious why you don’t share that view?
Post # 74
I couldn’t agree with you more. I hate just about everything about the idea of a strip club. However, I feel like it has become too deeply embedded in our culture as a "rite of passage" or something that guys "should" do at bachelor parties.
I was going to seriously ask my fiance to not have a bachelor party or not go to a strip club, but my mom said that he should be able to have his big night with the guys. She said that it is just a guy thing and he would really feel like he missed out if he didn’t have it. I guess she’s right- but that doesn’t make me anymore okay with it.
I guess I also have a problem with it because I don’t want a bachelorette party- I think it’s kind of a stupid thing to celebrate (for the reasons that you said). I would rather celebrate the start of my new life rather than lamenting the loss of my old one.
Post # 75
@chicagowife very good point. I guess I should clarify. I don’t have a problem with strip clubs in general. I also have no problem with porn or prostitution in general. The exception being that I obviously cannot condone violence against women in any form, and I am absolutely NOT ok with rape simulation porn or any other kind of porn depicting violence against anyone (male or female). My problem is with my fiance going to strip clubs or visiting a prostitute.
The reason I am ok with my fiance viewing porn is because 1) no actual person is coming into contact with him and 2) I have seen what he is watching. If I found out that he was watching violent porn or that he was watching hours and hours of porn on a daily basis, I would feel differently. As it is now, he watches porn maybe once a month, usually just one video of two average people engaging in pretty vanilla sex, and it’s usually because I’ve been out of town for a few days or I’ve been sick and we haven’t had sex, and he just needs to get it out of his system. Since I know the porn isn’t a big part of his life and it’s not like he’s satisfying his sexual urges with someone else, I don’t really care. I do totally understand women who don’t want their husbands watching porn though. I think, like strip clubs, it’s an issue best left up to the couple to decide.
I recognize that a lot of the points I made about being ok with porn are the same as the reasons people are giving for being ok with strip clubs, but I stand by my original reasons stated for not being ok with strip clubs, which I think are unrelated. 🙂
Post # 76
Leaving deeply religious reasons aside, a lot of our views are shaped by the society that we live in. In the country I live in (outside the US), a politician who decides to go to a prostitute (considered a private matter if this has no impact on his abilities in his career) does not have to resign, and it wouldn’t even make the news. I think people’s reactions to such things are really indicative of the moral leanings of the country… When I lived in the US, there was nothing worse for a woman to think about than a strip club, and god forbid a prostitute who chose to be one, oh the horror – I think they are placed on par with murderers in the US.
Where I live now, even controlled prostitution is not considered "good" or "bad," but a part of life and "okay" as long as it is conducted openly (think regularly inspected houses and free health insurance etc for these "official" prostitutes, strict condom policy, security, limited hours, great pay, etc). One of our friends goes to prostitutes quite often, and while he’s generally ridiculed for it in our circle (despite the openness, most people, after all, prefer the emotional attachment and comfort of getting to know someone and not just a "drive-through"), we aren’t about to stop being friends with him. It’s what our society has taught us, that’s all.
I haven’t talked about strip clubs much simply because it’s a non-issue in this country and has become a non-issue to me since I moved here. My fiance doesn’t go to them, but when his friends do, it’s not a big deal. Also, normal people with jobs and gfs and responsibilities don’t spend their time hanging out at strip clubs every weekend.
I think everyone can agree that our opinions are shaped at least in some way by what we see growing up. When you see sexuality as a non-issue and exchange of money for a business as a non-issue, you’re more likely to think that way. The same goes if you grew up hearing that strippers are the devil. Your views never come exclusively from inside you, they come from society and of course from religion.
Too bad for Eliot Spitzer, governor of New York, in Nuremberg or Zurich or Antwerp he could have gone far…