(Closed) Stupid rules. Stupid societal rules.

posted 9 years ago in Christian
Post # 46
Member
971 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: September 2008

@ CoffeeHound:  The story about no fish on Friday was told to us in a Religions of the World course I had to take awhile ago in college.  Sue me that I didn’t google it for accuracy.  I figured my professor was accurate and I relayed the story as I heard it.  So sue me.  I did not ASSUME anything. 

Do NOT tell me that the message from my church was in my head.  Were you even there when we were told NO?!!?!?  Seriously!?!? 

My kids are currently enrolled in a Catholic school, so I have NO BEEF to grind with the Catholic church. 

And you need to improve your reading comprehension.  I NEVER stated that not eating meat during lent was a Canon Law.  You go back and reread for accuracy this time.  There’s no mention of Canon law when I mentioned the story my prof. told us about meat during lent. 

 

Post # 47
Member
654 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: October 2011

I WOULD be having the same problem IF I were masochistic enough to actually ask my minister to marry us – which I’m not.  Lol.  I’m currently under discipline, next in line for excommunication, because I stopped going to church and started living with my fiance.  I guess it’s not relevant to them that the reason I stopped going to church is because everybody there was an asshat to my fiance when I brought him around, or that we live together because it used to be a long distance relationship, and who the hell wants to pay rent twice just for the privilege of a shorter drive?  I’m sure the church wasn’t going to give us that money.  Whatever.  We’ll get us a JoP and be done with it. 

To be honest, that’s probably what we would have done anyway – my church’s weddings are super boring: there’s a near full-length sermon, reading of the marriage forms (no joke – they read the effing forms; kill me), and all kinds of other traditional mumbo-jumbo I’m sure I don’t even know about because I didn’t bother to ask.  We also never planned on geting married in a church anyhow, so the officiant’s denomination is of little importance to us.

I’m pretty sure that most religious officiants are going to require marriage prep classes, though.  That’s part of what it takes to get married in an actual church, officiant aside.  Six weeks seems steeper than I expected, but I’m sure it varies.  Can you find a church in your area that has a sister-church in your wedding’s area?  I’m sure they would let you take the classes at the Hawaii branch and be married by a California officiant.  If it doesn’t matter that much to you which denomination it is, I’m sure there’s at least one or two that have mainland sisters.  Ask the Presbyterians – I find them to be pretty easy-going most of the time, and they’re everywhere!  😛

 

EDIT: @CoffeeHound:  As far as why cohabitation is bad – it’s technically not a sin.  There’s nothing wrong with living with another person.  However, the Church teaches against cohabitation because it leads to premarital sex, which is a sin.

Let me start by making it very clear that I have no desire or intention to get into a relgious argument with anyone.  I’m beyond tired of them by now (see earlier in my post), but I would like to point out how frigging dangerous it is to make a generalized statement like this.  And I’m not saying you’re wrong, because you’re not – that is definitely their crazy-ass reasoning, you’re one-hundred percent correct.  But I think people say things like that to justify something stupid, and they don’t realize how far that kind of nonsense can go. 

My church does not allow DANCING in their halls or affiliated schools because dancing leads to sex.  No wine either.  No wine, at a church wedding.  No dancing.  Because it might lead to sex.  Nobody likes to point out to them how many Bible verses tell about King David and other fabulous Biblical figures dancing their happy asses off or anything, not to mention how many of them glorify wine, because embarrassing your deacons is also somehow a sin or whatever.  It’s kind of ridiculous that people allow other people to pick something they don’t like and call it evil just because it might indirectly begin a random chain of events that could potentially (not definitely) eventually end with a sin.  If that were the case, nobody should be allowed to have birthday parties or go to high school or eat effing Taco Bell (we all know what goes on in those parking lots, don’t lie), but none of those things are keeping any of us from being married. 

*sigh*  Reason #4,832 why I was less than upset when I got my disciplinary letter.

Post # 48
Member
1025 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: August 2010

@deliciousappleblue: Weddings in general lead to sex Smile Isn’t that the point? (For the bride and groom at least)

Post # 49
Member
654 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: October 2011

@jedeve: XD  I love you.  If I thought I could say that with a straight face to anyone at my church, I might do it.

Post # 50
Member
209 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: September 2010

@CoffeeHound: 

Oddly enough, this is what Banditgirl said about Canon Law:

Living in sin isn’t in the Bible but in Jesus’ time, it wasn’t done.  It was considered sinful back then … along the lines of lust (one of the 7 deadly sins).  There are a ton of Canon Laws (in the Catholic church) that aren’t in the Bible but are based in the history of Jesus’ time.

So, according to your definition of Canon Law (as quoted from your post above): Canons are not based on traditions from “Jesus’ Time”, they’re all biblically based and/or based on Sacred Tradition and deal with theological matters, not social. 

Kinda sounds like what Banditgirl wrote!  Maybe we can fault Banditgirl for not putting that bolded comment above in a separate paragraph so it didn’t read like it went along with the whole living in sin thng. 

Nowhere did Banditgirl state that not eating meat on a Friday was Canon Law. Go back and read what she wrote.  And nowhere did she post that living in sin was Canon Law.  Again, go back and read what she wrote.  She simply stated that there are lots of rules and Canon Laws in teh church that aren’t in the bible but based in the history of Jesus’ time (her quote as bolded).

You did NOT read her post correctly.  Sure, correct her on the whole meatless Friday thing, but funny thing is that I heard the same story from several other people myself!  Calling Banditgirl a liar is just wrong and unfair.  You owe her an apology for that. 

And how do you know what Banditgirl’s church/priest told her?  Why would you say it was all in her head?  She’s ONLY stated a ton of times that she got married by a JoP.  Obviously, she was turned down by her church/priest.  Maybe her church/priest looked down on what she did and wouldn’t marry her because of it.  Doesn’t make Banditgirl wrong — it makes her church/priest wrong.  But, ultimately, it was the Church’s/priest’s decision.  Maybe the priest wanted to teach her a lesson?  Or maybe the priest did not condone marrying a woman in her predicament. 

 

 

Post # 52
Member
350 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: January 1991

@BanditGirl:  Your posts are clear, they’re misinformed, and you posted for the sole purposing of damaging one particular religion in the eyes of others.  That’s a problem and you’re going to get a response every single time.

I absolutely will not apologize and in turn expect a retraction of the lies posted previously in this thread.  Whether they were lies with malicious intent or lies founded in ignorance, they are lies. 

@LacrosseBride: There is a difference between “based in the history of Jesus’ time” and Sacred Tradition.  One references the social mores of a time period, and one reflects the actions of Jesus and the Apostles.  In my reading of the canons, I have found no comments that are reflected by social mores. 

Post # 53
Member
209 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: September 2010

@CoffeeHound:

You obviously didn’t see where she said she went by something she heard.  She shouldn’t have to apologize for that.  Obviously, you are shouting it from teh rooftops that she’s wrong.

What did she lie about?  I’m confused?

 

Post # 54
Member
1309 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: December 2011

@LacrosseBride: I too, think it isn’t right to call Banditgirl a liar, but Coffee is correct that canon law has nothing to do with premarital sex or having 3 kids out of wedlock or using birth control. You can do all those things and still get married in the Catholic Church, very easily. Happens every week at my church. Banditgirl is very, very confused. Perhaps the priest asked her to consider a change of lifestyle and she interpreted that as a “no”? Anyway, I’m sure she’s not making it up, but it’s important for lurkers and everyone to be aware that there are VERY few reasons the Church would turn you down for a marriage ceremony.

For instance, if you killed your first husband so that you could be free to marry a new guy? The Church would say No. Or if you’re still technically married to someone else? The Church would say No. But it’s extreme stuff like that. Not run of the mill sexual sins.

Post # 55
Member
209 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: September 2010

@deliciousappleblue: she stated she had 3 kids out of wedlock and was living in sin.  Do you not read?

Post # 56
Member
654 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: October 2011

@LacrosseBride: I read fine.  Do you not understand the connotation of a word like “predicament”?  Maybe you should ask her if she considered her situation that way before labeling it as such.  From what I know of her, she doesn’t think so, and neither do I.

Post # 57
Member
209 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: September 2010

Can one of you please show me where Banditgirl said Canon Law had anything to do with living in sin? 

Post # 58
Member
1309 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: December 2011

@LacrosseBride: I think it was the cominbation of two posts where she said, “I had premarital sex and three children out of wedlock, lived in sin for 9 years before getting married.  I use birth control.  Because of our situation, we knew that the Catholic church would never marry us based on the adult decisions we made.” and “tell that to our church who made it loud and clear to us that it wasn’t acceptable as we didn’t follow Catholic Canon.” BanditGirl wasn’t clear about what specific canons she is violating but from her list I would assume she thinks it’s the sexual issues that were causing problems. It’s awful if her priest made it seem that way, but if so he is the one who should be in MAJOR trouble with his bishop 🙁

Post # 59
Member
971 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: September 2008

I didn’t lie and am offering no apologies.  I never asked you to apologize to me, Coffeehound.  Lacrossebride did, I didn’t. 

We knew they wouldn’t marry us because we asked.  We went to discuss getting married in the church with our priest.  He was a new priest to our church.  He knew we had three kids because they were all baptised in the church, and at the time, one of them was enrolled in the church’s school.  When we sat down with im, he told us that the church would not marry a couple who had three children out of wedlock.  We asked for a further explanation and he said our moral choicese were not a good example to other couples out there.  We told him we just wanted to say our vows in the church and that it wasn’t going to be a “traditional” wedding.  He said he was sorry, we violated Catholic Canon, and couldn’t help us.  Now, I think that kind of says NO, don’t you? 

And, yeah — ours was a predicament and I am not offended by use of that word at all.  We’ve even referred to it as “our little predicament”. 

Post # 60
Member
1309 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: December 2011

@BanditGirl: you should report him. Not only are his pastoral skills lousy, he’s depriving you of your right to the sacraments. If you are willing to meet the Church’s requirements regarding the wedding liturgy and the canonical requirements (not married before etc) as a baptized Catholic you have a right to the sacrament of marriage. He can’t take that away from you.

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