That's not how abortion works, Trump. (big ol' vent)

posted 3 years ago in The Lounge
Post # 241
Hostess
9615 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: March 2014 - Chicago, IL

If I were faced with the horrible news that my baby was going to be born in pain and suffer exponentially until an early death, and I made the heart-wrenching decision to end the suffering (and perhaps save my own life over my unborn child’s)…  and then some god tried to punish me for making the best decision I could given the resources I had, then that is no god of mine. 

If god knows all and sees all AND has a plan for all, then wouldn’t he already know the anguish he’s putting me through? Wouldn’t he already know what the outcome would be? If he’s all knowing, what then is the point of judgement day? If he has a plan for everything, then why would he PLAN to set women up for failure? “I’m going to inflict an unviable pregnancy on this woman, and when she aborts the unviable fetus I’m going to smite her and send her to hell.” Right…..

Post # 242
Member
10028 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: September 2012

I’m a Christian.  I deeply believe in God and in God’s love.  I also believe that the woman who is already here, walking around on earth, is loved by God as much He loves her unborn baby.  And, if I personally can have compassion for any woman or girl needing an abortion I’m sure with 100% certainty God has compassion as well.

The thing is, not everyone believes in God as I and other Christians do.  And that is ok and that is their right.  The United States has a secular government, with freedom to believe or not believe, as it should be.

We don’t get to make the choice for the woman, it’s her choice, and between her and her God (or her not-God), and her doctor, to make the decision whether or not to have an abortion.  It is not for anyone to judge her.  All of the women/girls I’ve ever known who had to make the difficult choice to abort an unwanted pregnancy were tortured by the decision.  It’s not an easy thing.  But forcing someone to endure an unwanted pregnancy is worse torture!

Please, Christian ladies here, don’t forget about the life of the MOTHER, the woman who is already here.  She is also loved by God.  Have some compassion and leave her decision in her hands and trust that God is in control.  It is not our place to judge the women who make the choice to have an abortion. 

If Roe v Wade is overturned, God forbid, we will re-enter the Dark Ages of illegal abortions in back alleys and with rusty coat-hangers where so, so very many girls and young women DIED horrible, horrifyingly painful and unnecessary deaths.  That would be tragic.  Roe v Wade is a good thing, even for Christians.  Try to imagine your own daughter or future daughter in the situation of having been brutally raped and needing to get a legal, medical abortion.  You’d change your tune very quickly, believe me. 

It’s a complicated issue but so far the U.S. has made the right move to make abortions legal and safe in our country.  Think about the life of the woman already here, her life matters, too.

Post # 243
Hostess
9615 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper
  • Wedding: March 2014 - Chicago, IL

Sunfire :  OMG can I hug you!? We agree on something for once!

Post # 244
Member
10028 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: September 2012

FutureDrAtkins :  We actually agree on a lot of things, I’m sure.  Hugs back to you!  🙂

Post # 245
Member
1039 posts
Bumble bee

crackerjax :  I’ve done my best to stay away from this thread but your self-righteous bullshit finally got to me.

My father is an OB. He delivers babies. He performs c-sections. He’s had an amazing career before retiring. And he’s had some heart-breaking days and nights, where he’s been on the frontlines of women making painful decisions to terminate their pregnancies or delivering a stillborn child by no fault of their own. He’s watched these women grapple with the idea of their child suffering for just a few hours or days of life before passing and making the decision to end their pregnancy to lessen the pain for the child…. for their family.

How. Fucking. Dare. You. get high and mighty about another person’s choice; about my father’s oath to protect his patients and to advise them of doing the least amount of harm in an unbearable decision. How dare you compare him to a murderer because he’s the one that was the messenger to tell these families of the reality of their situation, and then to watch their grief as they said goodbye to a very wanted member of their family.

Those situations would haunt him. We always knew what had happened because when my mother would ask him how work went and he would say, “Bad day/bad night” and he would be in a haze for a few days. Its hard to deliver that news. Its hard to help a family come to terms with their choice to either continue a pregnancy to risk infection or to terminate. And its even more difficult to be the catalyst in that decision.

But as my father has said over the course of a 30+ year career: there are worse things than death.

You stance is positively ridiculous. A doctors oath is to DO NO HARM. And sometimes, doing no harm is to not needlessly continue suffering just because you wrongfully assume that “god wouldn’t want it that way.” So I guess any doctor that says to a family “there’s nothing more we can do for your family member” is also a murderer by your narrow and ignorant logic? I guess a doctor that puts someone on life support is also going against god, because if its someones time to go, no one should interfere? You and I will die one day it’s true, but to make it sound like doctors are happily and gleefully terminating pregnancies for funsies while wagging your finger at anyone who would have to make those decisions reminding them who they will have to answer to one day is disgusting.

So pro-life. Much compassion.

Post # 246
Member
11746 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: June 2015

Sorry but I can’t believe God only cared about fetuses and not women or babies. Or our troops going to war. 

Or global climate change killing people. 

And there are many religions, so one person’s god isn’t everyone’s god. 

If you’re want to impose Christian beliefs as law, so too then must we allow all other religions to so, including satanic cults. This is why we don’t do that. (Note: ironically, satanic cults of the 1980s evolved in part into the same anti-government conspiracies that Trump peddles and are now associated with the evangelical Right.)

Protecting a fetus while advocating forcing pregnant women to die? The opposite of “pro-life”. We can’t allow a woman to make a decision over a fetus because the fetus doesn’t get to decide, so we should force women to not get to decide? This makes no sense. 

Everyone who’s read history knows religion was used to control and manipulate the masses and one purpose was to keep them breeding to make soldiers and more workers/tax payers for the monarchy.  That’s where putting the fetus above the woman comes from- as a way of keeping the lower social classes from rising, thereby protecting the people who made the laws. (Oversimplified for brevity) those same people telling the poor not to utilize birth control or abortion always have access to both, because money and privilege. 

I’ll not be convinced that my liberty should be handed over to an untreated, mentally ill moron who lost his daddy’s money time and time again just because he was born rich.

What has trump done to better himself? He’s selfish and greedy and cruel. He got lucky and instead of honoring noblesse oblige, he is a nasty despot out to rip off the people who worship him. He is the last person to make an argument about alleged morals. 

 

 

Post # 247
Member
10028 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: September 2012

Katie-Didnt :  Your post made me cry.  cry  Your Dad is hero.

Post # 248
Member
11746 posts
Sugar Beekeeper
  • Wedding: June 2015

Sunfire :  agreed. Her post made me cry and her dad is a hero. I can’t imagine how tough it is to watch families struggle every day with heart-break. 

Post # 251
Member
1987 posts
Buzzing bee

crackerjax :  Let me join the chorus of voices saying that I categorically, unequivocally, 110% reject your god or any gods.  Anyone who would force a god on someone shows no respect for the dignity of the human species.  I wonder if you’ve ever complained about Muslims and their supposed desire to subject everyone to Sharia law…because a Christian who tries to impose his/her god on everyone else is motivated by the exact same impulse as a Muslim who wants to make everyone live according to Sharia law.

Katie-Didnt :‘s father has more respect for life and its dignity than people who think that a suffering woman doesn’t deserve the compassion we show our pets (which would be most anti-choicers) could even begin to comprehend.  

Post # 252
Member
814 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: September 2013

Sunfire :  so eloquently said! I haven’t heard such a beautiful and well thought out comment as yours.

Post # 253
Member
814 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: September 2013

BalletParker :  your father is a hero, a rarely told one.  People like your father have to bear the raw realities of life in all it’s cruel, unrelenting, and non discriminating manner. It’s the reason I couldn’t join medicine and became an engineer instead: because those heartbreaking situations kills part of your soul that day.  For him to keep doing his job and doing the best he could to inform his patients the reality of the situation and carry THEIR wishes is nothing short but the sign of a hero.

Post # 254
Member
814 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: September 2013

crackerjax :  if your God is so selfish and petty to create an innocent baby only to see them horribly suffer to “test” the mom then he is worse than Satan himself and I will shun him for I refuse to worship such a cruel, childish and selfish being.

Post # 255
Member
403 posts
Helper bee

raliel :  Lack of compassion? sucking a human out and flushing it down the toilet? You haven’t the slightest idea of what you are talking about. I do. I had a child with a major birth defect ( heart, pancreas and liver). we loved him until the day he died. Loonie liberals like you don’t know anything.

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