(Closed) The "Did I Cheat?" Continuation Thread

posted 8 years ago in Relationships
Post # 392
Member
679 posts
Busy bee

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@greenviolets: I understand that, I just read that statement, put out there like it was a fact, and felt the need to respond, because it wasn’t true. Saying that false rape reports never happen doesn’t help matters either.

To add to the conversation, I will say that PURELY BASED ON THE OP SITUATION, I would have a hard time classifying it as rape. Based ONLY on the details provided in that scenario, it would be hard for me to conclusively say that it was or wasn’t. I would not say that the girl (or guy) put herself/himself into the situation and should have been smarter, or was asking for it, or anything like that. I would say that the girl knows she consented to kissing at the very least, and she may or may not have consented to more than that, but simply doesn’t remember. I totally understand that from the legal aspect, any level of intoxication means a person can’t consent, but I think ethically it’s a really gray area. I took “black out drunk” to mean she was not unconscious, but couldn’t remember events from the previous evening upon waking the next day. Black out drunk presents itself in different ways for different people and without more information, we don’t know if she acted outwardly normal while being extremely intoxicated, to the point where the other person in question legitimately couldn’t tell she was not coherent. We don’t know if the other person asked her if she wanted to have sex, and we don’t know what her response was. Obviously if she was unconscious, or unable to stand/speak, or he asked her if she wanted to have sex and she said no, it would without a doubt be rape. And, even if she didn’t remember what happened, if she did feel violated, of course it would be 100% within her rights to either report it, or if she felt comfortable doing so, asking other people at the party what had happened, or even asking the other person what happened (only if she felt comfortable.) I guess, from a legal standpoint, the criteria meet the definition of rape, but ethically, I wouldn’t be comfortable 100% saying it was.

One difference I’ve noticed in the stories of victims/survivors here, and the story the OP presented, is that the victims/survivors typically (even if they were drinking) remember the incident, even just snippets of it, and/or remember clearly saying no. That is not the case with the OP’s situation.

And yes, I’ve been sexually assaulted and I’ve been “date raped.” So I am not coming at this as someone who can’t understand because it hasn’t happened to them.

 

Post # 393
Member
1170 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: January 2013

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@WillyNilly:  I think you might be right. However there is a difference from being blacked out and having alcoholic amnesia.  Someone with alcoholic amnesia can act just like a sober person, you would never know they werent sober. Someone is blacked out, we generally see understand this to be passing out. However the trouble I have with the original post is that she doesnt say she blacked out in that moment, she actually only remembers up til that point. That is not to say that she was blacked out but only that she cant remember.

She might have been proactive til a point and then blacked out. We can not know when that was. If she was awake and an active participant then its not a clear cut case of rape.

If she was passed out and he took her clothes off and had sex with her that is rape.  

Post # 394
Member
3551 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: August 2014

I’m not going to jump into the rape discussion, but I did read an interesting tidbit recently about being drunk enough to black out. When someone is that drunk their long term memory does not record properly, but their short term memory is fine. Since their short term memory is working they can appear fairly normal and hold a conversation while being black out drunk because they can remember the last 2-5 minutes. However if you ask a person in that state what happened 30 minutes ago or an hour ago they will not be able to tell you and will probably be confused about it. So if anyone wanted to know it there was a way to tell if someone was blacking out, you might be able to by asking the right questions.

Post # 395
Member
424 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: June 2013

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@peachacid:  HOWEVER…that doesn’t mean rapes don’t happen.  It doesn’t mean a woman is 100% safe if she dresses in revealing clothing, drinks at a bar with strangers, and goes home with a stranger — or even with a friend.  We all know that women aren’t 100% safe in these situations, yet these situations happen all the time.  It does not make any assault that happens the FAULT of the victim…but it does mean that women can take action to protect themselves. 

What situation is a woman 100% safe in?  She can be raped in her own home while wearing sweatpants. 

One of the most common places for a woman to be raped is the grocery store parking lot. Guess we shouldn’t go grocery shopping anymore–we’re just setting ourselves up for danger!

I know that isn’t what you implied by your post, but I hate this idea that women should constantly be monitoring and on the look out for signals of rape and danger. We are in danger 100% of the time, in any situation, no matter what we wear. The only one who can prevent the sexual assault is the rapist.

Post # 396
Member
55 posts
Worker bee

 

Edit: Fuck this. This board is too much and I’m tired of putting my story out there and being denied and victim-blamed. It is too sad to me that women work so hard against each other. I can’t believe I ever thought the bee would be a good supportive environment.

Post # 397
Member
3580 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: August 2012

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@TexasSpringBride:  Blacking out to me means being fully awake but no longer being truly coherent or able to make any sort of rational decision, and also losing all ability to remember what is happening. Passing out means passing out.

Post # 398
Member
1170 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: January 2013

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@kvliner:  Its a grey area. I wont say anymore.

I will say that drinking to that point isnt responsible. Also drinking makes people less inhibited. I can not know for certain if you or anyone else changed their mind because they had liquid courage.

I wasnt there I dont know. I cant make a quick judgement that would send someone to prison for the rest of their life unless I knew it for an absolute certainty

Post # 399
Member
3580 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: August 2012

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@Eckle:  Interesting. Thanksfor sharing!

Post # 400
Member
424 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: June 2013

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@TexasSpringBride:  But it’s okay to judge a woman for “putting herself in the situation”?

Post # 401
Member
1170 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: January 2013

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@WillyNilly:  See to me, blacking out means, passed out, drunk no longer functioning. Where as alcoholic amnesia is where your functioning, your taking part in your actions and surroundings but you dont remember the next morning.

Post # 402
Member
55 posts
Worker bee

 

Edit: Fuck this. This board is too much and I’m tired of putting my story out there and being denied and victim-blamed. It is too sad to me that women work so hard against each other. I can’t believe I ever thought the bee would be a good supportive environment.

Post # 403
Member
3580 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: August 2012

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@TexasSpringBride:  Just because it’s irresponsible doesn’t mean it’s okay to take advantage. Be careful with that line of reasoning.

Post # 404
Member
1170 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: January 2013

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@zerlina:  Arent we judging a man who didnt say no because in the OP didnt stop to ask if she as sober enough to make an informed decision.

Post # 405
Member
4843 posts
Honey bee
  • Wedding: August 2013

As a victim, this whole discussion makes me want to puke. How about NO ONE should speak for victims except victims? 

Post # 406
Member
1170 posts
Bumble bee
  • Wedding: January 2013

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@WillyNilly:  Im not saying that being irresponsible is an excuse for rape. I can not know if someones drinking made them less inhibited and they changed their minds about something.

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