(Closed) The WHO finally called out on their inaction!

posted 8 months ago in The Lounge
  • poll:

    The WHO was ineffective and useless during this time

    The WHO handled the crisis very well

  • Post # 61
    Member
    5644 posts
    Bee Keeper
    • Wedding: July 2018

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    Brideordie :  Can you link what you’re referring to? I have never seen anyone from the WHO say it was impossible to close borders?

    Post # 62
    Member
    3090 posts
    Sugar bee

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    Brideordie :  

    Brideordie : 

    I have to say that no organisation is perfect and, as they say, hindsight is always 20:20. If we knew then what we know now then we might have done things differently. Closing borders is not within the remit of an organisation like the WHO. Their role was to advise in an emerging situation. 

    I also have to say that Trump doesn’t seem to have provided any evidence for what he has been saying about the WHO being China-centric. (A lot of what he says doesn’t seem backed up by evidence.)

    What evidence do you have for the WHO being China-centric. Show me the evidence and I’ll let you know what I think of it.  I say this because it is easy to get caught up in the emotion of the situation. 

    Post # 64
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    1648 posts
    Bumble bee
    • Wedding: August 2019

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    mrsaime :  I didn’t say they offered them. I said that, as financially contributing members of the WHO, we have access to a variety of their services should we seek them. It’s not unusual to create your own test. It is negligent and very unusual to let your pride get the best of you and not ask for help (that you are owed, as a paying member of a global body) after you butcher the initial testing and response. 

    Post # 65
    Member
    9182 posts
    Buzzing Beekeeper

    And at the same time many more “regular people” where getting on planes and cruise ships and pretty much ignoring all advice. Many “regular people” were saying it was fake news and nothing to worry about and many “regular people” had zero opinions because they were just not interested and thought it was NBD.

    Many “regular people” are still ignoring advice today. The police in my state are issuing on average over 100 fines per day to people ignoring everything from shut downs to social distancing to mandatory isolation. So much so that anyone arriving from overseas is being placed under guard in hotels to wait out their quantines. 

    So which “regular people” were we supposed to listen to at the time? 

     

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    rez123 :  
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    Brideordie :  

    Post # 66
    Member
    674 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: May 2015

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    Brideordie :  I would be so interested to hear you explain, in your own words, the structure and function of the WHO. 

    Post # 67
    Member
    9182 posts
    Buzzing Beekeeper

    My reply vanished so reposting. Apologies if it appears as a duplicate.

     

    So many armchair scientists and emergency management professionals that it is astounding. The WHO was working on the information they had. Information that was being received from various sources with little way to verify said information. Unless you are privvy to that information how on earth can you say you would make a different decision or done it better. Have any of you ever been in charge of a large scale operation in a pandemic or disaster? Or have you just watched a few movies like contagion and think you know all the answers? Because I have been. And let me tell you it is friggin hard and you do make mistakes, sometimes ones that will haunt you for the rest of your life. You are working on limited every changing information. And yes it is your job to do that but you do the best you can with the tools at hand to make decisions. You are working with and often against governments and being blocked at every turn. You are working 24/7 in a stressful situation. God forbid we make a wrong decision or not have the right information to make a better decision. This disease spread because individual governments did not shut their boarders in a timely fashion. Some countries governments managed to take the information that was out there and make better choices than others. But they all had the same information. This is on individual governments. I mean plenty of governments ignore reccomendations from bodies like the WHO and the UN all the time since they are seen as advisory organisations rather than having any legal authority. So it is hardly surprising that it happened again.

    Post # 68
    Member
    1254 posts
    Bumble bee
    • Wedding: October 2016

    There is so much blame to pass around on this one. 

    1) China. Knew they had a problem in November. Failed to notify WHO until 12/31. Then allowed the mass migrations of Chinese New Year to take place. 

    2) WHO for pandering to China.

     

    3) Trump for completely ignoring early warnings, minimizing the response early on, and his massive inaction regarding supply chain for ventilators and PPE. 

    The US did not actually decline WHO test kits. They never asked for them. But WHO frequently does NOT provide this kind of assistance to wealthy nations. Instead, Trump delayed the development of a test by initially trying to give the inside track in test development to one of his cronies. That test was terrible which left a time crunch and need for EUA from the FDA. (Another Trump screw up)

     

    FWIW: I am a frontline health professional and have been watching this pandemic come at us since mid January. So if anyone wants to tell me that I’m saying this in retrospect, I’ve been watching this evolve for 2.5 months now.

    Post # 69
    Member
    1248 posts
    Bumble bee
    • Wedding: May 2019

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    j_jaye :  I know it’s not the focus of your comment, but I’ve got to take exception to the claim that all governments had access to the same information from the WHO. My country is not only denied membership in the WHO, it was stripped of observer rights in 2016 after the election of a government that supports distancing the country from Beijing (the Tsai Ing-Wen led DPP). This is because the WHO supports China’s claim to ownership of Taiwan, and at the request of the CCP it refuses to deal with our government. We were quite literally flying blind at the beginning of this, for entirely unnecessary political reasons.

    I fully agree with you that managing a pandemic is a complex and challenging task. But it’s not correct to assume entirely benign motivations of behalf of the WHO. Their callous neglect of 23 million people has been horrific.

    I know we’re a small country in many senses of the world. But we’re real and we matter, and this isn’t okay. I’m not looking to attack you personally; I do understand and agree with your larger point. I just feel the need to speak up when I see it assumed that the WHO has been equitable in their dealings with all governments affected by this.

    The WHO is certainly not the only body under the influence of this policy. Many airlines have caved to CCP pressure and now list Taiwan as a Chinese port. PayPal has recently started adding PROVINCE OF CHINA to all Taiwanese addresses, and there’s nothing we can do to remove that. But this just has a deeper sting, because human lives are on the line.

    Here’s an interesting article about Taiwan’s attempts to regain involvement in world health:

    https://nspp.mofa.gov.tw/nsppe/news.php?post=135025&unit=400

    Post # 70
    Member
    9182 posts
    Buzzing Beekeeper

    Sorry I understand Taiwan is in a different situation but I will point out that I never said information from the WHO and it was explicitly for that reason. There was boundless information out there including from medcal experts from various countries and organisations. I am pretty sure most countries wouldn’t have access to the specific information that the WHO received but rather just their advisory. The WHO are not the be all and end all of medical information. From my time working in government we gathered information from all the sources we could to develop an informed plan rather than waiting on one specific advisory agency to inform us. I would assume other governments, Twaian’s included, do the same.

    As an example Iceland is testing at a much higher and wider rate than what was reccommended. Sweden is choosing a far different response than lockdowns. New Zealand closed it’s boarders when it only had single digit numbers of cases. Governments take all available information and make decisions for themselves which is their right. 

    Any organisation that is behoven to it’s benefactors is going to be forced to take sides. Unfortunately those with deep wallets get better seats. I wish the world was different but alas it is not. It is situations like Taiwan  that get highlighted at times like this (but I sadly doubt it will change the situation).

    You should be proud of how well Taiwan has managed this pandemic especially inlight of the WHO situation. Novel measures to protect their citizens like screens separating students. Your countries numbers are proof of it’s achievements. Unfortunately though due to politics if you are outside of Taiwan, unless you actively look for the information you won’t get it.

     

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    xiexie :  

    Post # 71
    Member
    13906 posts
    Honey Beekeeper
    • Wedding: November 1999

    I think Trump is trying to get some of the heat off of his own inaction. WHO declared this a global health emergency at the end of January and Trump was still holding rallies and denying the severity at the end of February and into March. He was slow to act on social distancing disputing science from his own experts, and burying his head in the sand. 

    Maybe the WHO could have acted sooner or more strongly, but Trump’s ineptitude is the far greater shame here. 

    Post # 72
    Member
    5452 posts
    Bee Keeper
    • Wedding: October 2017

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    j_jaye :  who knew that you could learn everything you needed to know in just a few google searches? These experts, wasting so many years and money studying and testing in labs and such, when all they have to do is just google.

    So obnoxious when people become “experts” this way. we see this with the surge in constitutional scholars too

    Post # 73
    Member
    1248 posts
    Bumble bee
    • Wedding: May 2019

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    j_jaye :  I appreciate your nuanced and considered response. Thank you. It’s an incredibly frustrating and scary time, and thank you for your kind words and intelligent perspective.

    I think that while it is true that there are more options than the Who out there, it’s fair to say that as an organisation dedicated to world health, they’ve been derelict in their duties due to political influence in a number of ways. This doesn’t mean they’ve been entirely useless, which is why I didn’t participate in the poll. I don’t think either option is correct. I do, however, absolutely hate the influence that politics has in the WHO and I desperately wish there was the possibility of an apolitical organisation with a similar reach. It may be impossible in the world we live in, but that doesn’t eliminate the desire.

    Thanks for hearing me out and for the opportunity to air my thoughts. I really hope you stay safe and well!

    ETA: One of the reasons I’m trying so hard to spread information about the situation here is,as you say, if you’re not on the ground here you probably won’t get it. I’ve been begging family back home to wear masks forever, as we were advised to do back in January. They resisted up until the point where they became impossible to get. Luckily, starting tomorrow we’re going to be allowed to ship masks to relatives, so I’m off to the post office!

    Post # 74
    Member
    10560 posts
    Sugar Beekeeper
    • Wedding: City, State

    I have no interest in assigning blame though there is much to go around. All that matters is we’re fucked.

    Post # 75
    Member
    1161 posts
    Bumble bee
    • Wedding: July 2013

    Heavily under the influence of China and kissing China’s ass all the way 

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