- 9 years ago
- Wedding: September 2011
their social security benefits are not your business. the end.
their social security benefits are not your business. the end.
@les105: I am going to correct you. if they are not legally married then YES he claims single. Even if they live together. Any state that has a “common law marriage” clause the couple must live together as husband a wife for a certain number of years. however when filling out his paperwork he must claim all HOUSEHOLD income. but can still file single because he is not in fact married. that is not fraud.
I keep thinking about this thread and trying to put my finger on what exactly rubs me the wrong way. I think it all comes back to telling the guests and the parents that it is a wedding when it really is not. And I know some people say that a “wedding is in your hearts and not in a church or a courthouse,” and to some extent, that’s true. But if it’s in our hearts, and ours to create anytime just out of our love and commitment, then why is it seen as such a major milestone in one’s life? Making it legal, or making it recognized by your church, is a greater commitment than simply professing our love and promising to cherish one another. And while the day is definitely about celebrating the couple’s love and commitment (both of which can exist without state or church to approve or record it), it’s also about acknowledging and honoring and celebrating this next level of the relationship.
I do apologize if there are other avenues, other than church wedding or legally binding wedding that would also be seen as the next step in the relationship but those are the first two that come to mind. Either way, this couple does not appear to be having either, and the OP’s reference to a “faith” wedding does not imply to me that it is an actual religious wedding that would be recognized by any actual church.
ne of the big injustices that needs to be righted with marriage equality in the US, and my feelings are not towards those whose church or government refuses to recognize their marriage or allow them to marry, but rather those who choose not to.
If you don’t want to take your relationship to that next level, or don’t see the act of marriage as being an evolutionary milestone in your relationship, that’s fine. You don’t HAVE to get married, and as long as you love and respect each other, I will support you and your decision.
If you don’t want to take your relationship to that next level for whatever reason, but still want to celebrate and honor your commitment, that is also fine. Just give your celebration a name that accurately reflects what it is, and I’ll come dance and toast you and give you a card or a gift, too.
But if you don’t want to take your relationship to the next level, no matter how valid your reasons are, don’t lie to me. Don’t tell me you’re doing something that you’re not. Don’t hire an officiant and read vows when we all think we’re at a wedding, when you are really not going to wed. Be honest with me, and above everything else, be honest with the people who are kind and generous enough to want to give you a celebration.
This is not about defrauding the government— while it does leave a bad taste in my mouth to hear of someone having a less-than-legal wedding in order to get increased benefits, it’s a loophole at best; they are following the law. whether or not it is ethical is definitely up for debate. This is about masquerading in front of your loved ones and wanting them to all celebrate this milestone in your relationship, but not actually having a milestone.
@penguinof3: I’m not really sure what you’re correcting me on, I was directing quoting the OP, who I’m guessing has all of the specifics of what’s going on here, and she says what they are doing is fraudulent even if they’re not married. Perhaps we’re just debating semantics here, as even you say that not listing both incomes would be fraudulent, and that’s what they’re doing. Either way, they’re commiting fraud aside from this marriage ceremony.
F*** the system!!!
Let them be married however they want…who cares if it’s on paper or not! They want to be together and celebrate THAT and that’s what they are doing!
@fishbone: I agree.
It rubs me the wrong way. I think mostly because they are not telling the parents, who are paying for the shindig. That in itself screams ‘entitled’ to me. If the only reason they are not getting the license is due to the logistics of it, I don’t see why they can’t tell the parents.
I would also dislike going to a wedding and giving a gift only to find out it wasn’t a real wedding.
I really dislike the comparison to gay weddings – I am pretty sure any gay couple that has a wedding celebration would GLADLY sign the license to go with it if the courts allowed them to.
@les105: im sorry I didnt realize you were quoting, i must have misread it, in anyway by not claiming the household income even as a single person then yes in that way its fraud but claiming single is not…technically in the eyes of the law he is still single even with the wedding, as long as they are not legally married then he still claims single.
You are a lawyer, so you must be aware that if they hold themselves out as husband and wife, depending on your state that makes them husband and wife, if they want to be!
Although I agree, starting a marriage based upon lies is not a great idea…I’d stay out of it and just do what I was asked to do.
and again, I point out that the OP never said that its fact that the parents are all clueless. Per the original post…
“As in it looks, smells, feels and is just like a wedding, the invitations have said it is a wedding but at the end you end up with a couple who just threw down 10k of their parents’ money and no license to show for it.
The parents do not all know. I am one of 3 people in the bridal party outside of the officiant (which is how I found out) who know and I found out just after the invitation showed up in my mailbox. “
Clearly implying that SOME of the parents know, and some do not! The officiant knows, OP knows and and at least 2 other people know…and all of us know!
Some people were told when gay marriage
wasnt legal that they had a “choice” to marry straight. How ridiculous that was. Many were pushed into small ceremonies, some stood tall and didn’t care what others thought they didn’t follow the normal because that doesn’t change a thing please realize people need this money to survive quite literally in many cases. And struggled with the children they had, going back in hospital rooms etc.
people can’t chose if they have a disability they cant make it go away, and many cant afford to lose the money given for medications, special care, equipment to help with the disability, therapies, and they become not a equal in the marriage because they will lose the check that makes them a equal and a secure member of society. It’s demoralizing. and to see some of the harsh comments here the way people don’t understand, something as pure as Just wanting to celebrate the love they have in front of family and friends. I say they are lying if the Dont have the party. Then they are hiding the love they want to show everyone they have. Marriage equality isn’t even close When it comes to the disabled and the lives they lived are not being fulfilled duento it. There’s still marriage penalties for the disabled when they can’t chose if they are sick just like you cant chose if you are straight or gay. Yes if disabled you can marry another person that is disabled receiving benefits and it be a “state legal marriage” with no penalty. but then is it really a “choice”.
They love each other. Not someone else. That makes it convenient for you to feel comfortable going to their party. One isn’t receiving benefits for being disabled. That is how it is. So Is the marriage license the “piece of paper” really what makes it real? All the money that goes into a wedding is unnecessary it’s a choice to spend what you want and quite frankly who cares, people spend more on their 16 year olds bday parties. If it were legal you may say they couldnt just walk away but anyone can these days, some even have the marriage annulled a day later after all that money. so please in the name of marriage equality for all Stop getting caught up in what makes it real, because The document is nothing without the love Of the people. Start understanding and stand up for their love that is the first step for change. And until the laws change this is all they have, a choice to do this, or hide this love and their dreams and never have that party that exchange of the love they share shared in front of those they care for. Unless they find ankther way such as this It would never ever happen in this life unless giving up something that keeps them well, stable, medicated if needed, on therapies, and in the hands of doctors who can care for them. And hospitalized when things get bad. Without it the bills can run up to thousands a month and without that check and insurance benefits catered to disabled people’s they are no longer independent they are now a dependent of their partner who may have to give up their job to take care of the one they love just to keep you happy because you want them to have a document that says hey this is real. But it’s been real since they fell in love can anyone see or realize that? Is it really everyone’s business if they have to get into medical Business. Do you want to share your medical business before marrying the one you love. So why would they before commiting and saying how much they love each other in front of all of the people they love. With these comments here do you think they have not read them before considering or planning a ceremony, do you think the comments here would encourage them to talk openly or would they put fear in someone who already may say “Ya I can’t change this. Ya I am receiving help People may misunderstand, Ya people do talk about me in this way. They don’t get it. Ya This is what I’m stuck with until death.” They literally have this problem and yes till death do they part marriage is not a cure But it should be a basic human right.
Does that not entitle them to a wedding they dreamed of as a child. When all theu ask for is a party a commitment ceremony. “a non government not state not legal ceremony that is a party that celebrates commitment of love, that resembles and is close to but is not a wedding.”
dissability is physical, mental, and also on many levels of intelligence, but the love bug seems to bite and catch most. And the dissability marriage penalty whether the benefits are being decreased or are being taken away altogether depending on the benefit received puts many in a catch 22. Educate before you hate.
This is wrong. Do not go.
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