Post # 17
ljm308 : It’s so hard. I still do quite care about him. He has gotten better with me in the last year when I told him to stop name calling and start communicating or I would walk. He got better and I felt like we could move forward, but then he started getting snarky during arguments. I am always in the wrong and can never explain my side without him fully listening so he NEVER understands what I am truly trying to say. Yes I still love him, but he has zero respect for me which makes me care about him less. I am afraid to talk to him about anything. He was really good to me for the first two years or our marriage and then he let his true colors through big time.
He took my name off of his car he bought when we were engaged because I lied to him about something I bought for the car that was $20, and I said it was like $15 or somethimg. Stupid to lie about something like that, yes. I was 19 and dumb. He yanked my name off of the registration because of that and didn’t tell me. I should have realize what the hell I was getting into but I was young and stupid. Now I am older, my tolerance doesn’t exist for stupid crap like it did when I was younger, and he is definitely less kind than he was the first few years together. I just keep trying to remind myself about all of the emotional abuse he has put me through. He has even made fun of me extendedly about what kind of books I read. What does that matter? It keeps me out of trouble and I enjoy it. Things like that. Just gotta keep chugging along and making money and start over fresh.
Post # 18
emeraldbee : Do you think suggesting counseling would help fix these problems or do you think it’s purely personality and can’t be changed? Last time I suggested counseling to him a few years ago he declined so I don’t even know if counseling is going to fix anything in my situation.
Post # 19
I sent you a private message with more personal details of how I went about mine. Thinking of you xox
Post # 20
I think you should read this: http://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2016/06/20-diversion-tactics-highly-manipulative-narcissists-sociopaths-and-psychopaths-use-to-silence-you/
I am really emotional right now because I was in a nacissistic abusive relationship for almost 6 years (18-24). The ways he treats you echos things that my ex would do to me. The way he treats you is abusive and manipulative. I know how hard it is to leave a relationship like this. I tried so hard to save the relationship and put so much work into it. I knew for years that I needed to leave but i made excuse after excuse because i was so terrified of what would happen when we broke up. I was always making excuses for his behavior. you should not have to constantly make excuses for someone. Like others have mentioned I made a plan to leave and slowly started moving things to my parents house. I had to go into credit card debt to escape the situation but it was worth it. Leaving him was the best decision I have ever made in my ENTIRE life. I think about the life I would have now if i didnt leave and I am so thankful. I have the most incredible life now. You cannot live your happiest life if your partner is causing you this much emotional pain. I know how it feels to be afraid of the unknown of what it will be like to not have that person in your life. I am telling you from the other side life is so much better when you remove people who bring you down.
8 months after I left that relationship i met FH. we have an incredible relationship and communicate effortlessly. He is kind and generous. He will do a kind thing for me without even realizing he is doing it and I cant believe that after experiencing all that abuse he was out there waiting for me that whole time.
you deserve to be happy
Post # 21
karkar1234 : I just want to say thank you for taking the time to post this. I am so torn between telling him if he wants to try counseling then we’ll go for it or not. I am not so sure counseling can help narcissistic people. I love him, I do. He says he loves me very much. If he truly loved me for me, he would respect me more. It isn’t that it’s all bad, a lot of it is good or neutral too. He is honest and loyal to a T. Between our big fights, yes, life is fine. I enjoy his company when he is pleasant but sometimes he has bad days and so do I. It is the BIG fights in between of him saying nasty, awful things that make me want to leave.
I contemplate if it is fair for me to leave when he is good to me in between the big fights that don’t often happen; then I think of how he demands things of me, how he expects me to give up sleep before work so I can take him on a drunken Dennys run and when I don’t calls me an effing b. Does counseling solve that behavior? If he could communicate and learn to hold his tongue and not be a narcissist, I would stay. Is that possible through counseling? Probably not and that breaks my heart because I love who he is when hes the husband who makes the bed and cleans the dishes when I come home.
I love him, but I don’t know if counseling can help salvage the worst in him. I vowed to stay forever and I feel broken that I might be walking because of our once every 6 month fights — but they are borderline, if not, abusive.
Post # 22
welikeshinystuff : It’s always easier to remember the good times versus the bad times, it’s human nature. It’s how we get though this thing called life. You shouldn’t be anticipating the next fight, or the next thing that is going to set him off. That’s no way to live.
Things such as name calling shouldn’t “be getting better,” it shouldn’t happen to begin with. He’s not four. It’s all fine and well for people to learn how to communicate with each other in the beginning and until common ground is reached and boundaries set, there will be some growing pains with that; but you guys have been married for 5 years. He should be past the petty, childish behavior, and certainly not treating you as if you “owe” him anything.
I know it’s hard, but dig deep and have enough self-respect to leave. And in the future, set some standards of how people are allowed to treat you. The age old adage is true – we teach others how to treat us. You’ve allowed him to treat you like shit, even if it’s not everyday, and there are “good times” sprinkled in with the rest of it, but it’s time now to stand up for yourself and put a stop to it. This is no way to live, and you deserve so much better.
As for the vow to stay forever, that doesn’t include staying in an abusive relationship. And the other side of that coin is that he loves you, cherishes you, supports you, and most of all respects you. He’s not doing that, and thus, this “agreement” is no longer valid. I’m not an advocate for divorce, but he vowed just the same as you – and clearly isn’t honoring them. Worse yet, he’s betraying them.
It’s time to take care of you, and that includes not letting yourself be disrespected anymore.
Post # 23
Oh, hell no. Him threatening to leave you if you don’t lose weight? Clearly he doesn’t care about YOU as a person. Why should you care about him? There are better men out there. He sounds like a loser, to be honest.
Post # 24
Not only does counseling not help narcissists, it often makes them worse. They hone their manipulation skills and pick up a few new tricks in therapy.
They get no benefit, “We’re here to fix her.“
Most therapists won’t work with narcissists and they shouldn’t.
Couples counseling can be quite dangerous with *any* abuser. They make all the right noises in session, then proceed to punish the victim at home for what she has revealed in therapy.
The *only* treatment that has shown any effectiveness at all–and it has been mostly a failure, is peer group counseling with an extremely knowledgeable and strong facilitator. Read Lundy Bancroft’s book, Why Does He Do That? for great clarity. He also says that the couple must separate during treatment.
I’m writing a book about narcissism right now, so the topic is very much on my mind. If there is one takeaway, this is it: no couples counseling!
Post # 25
I am typically a pro- marriage counseling sort….but not in your case, and here’s why.
I don’t think any marriage counselor can teach anyone how to treat their partner with kindness and respect. You have to respect the other person you are married to, at a very bare mimimum. I think mariage counselors can help couples fine tune things, such as understanding and improving your communicaiton skills with your partner. T he basics such as not calling another person names during fights just has to be a given. He’s threatening to leave bc you gained weight? a counselor isn’t needed to sit there and tell him that this was inappropriate…. and find some other way to voice his concerns about your health. your dh already knows that is downright cruel as does anyone who is reading this post. I also think that if you don’t stand up for yourself, then it’s easier for him to treat you badly and do the same thing when the next fight happens. He is losing respect for you bc he’s treating you like shit and you’re taking it .
Unrelated of course, but I had a former boyfriend who sounded similar to your dh. All started out well, but over time he got more and more mean and would call me names during fights. After the argument passed, he would apologize and say that he understood that name calling was unacceptable. I, in turn, would say very calmly that I wasn’t intending to live this way. I suggested anger management for him. He would say that he woudl look into it, but he never did. He also said at the same time that he could manage this on him own, and that he would ‘make himself’ do a better job during disagreements with me and not swear or name call. Then, all would be well, until the next stupid argument would occur. After several incidents like this, I had a realization that things weren’t going to change. He wasn’t going to stop his behavior and my not leaving him because of it only reinforced things. Finally, FINALLY, I did leave this relationship and you know what? He was SURPRISED. I asked him why and he said he thought that I would never leave. Well, deep down, if you never think your partner will leave you, then there is no incentive to change your behavior/ treatment of them. I reinforced his behavior bc I said I would leave and I didn’t. He said that he would stop the name calling and he didn’t. See how this just went around and around? You can bet that your Darling Husband is talking to his boss or clients the way he talks to you…. bc guess what? If he did, he’d be out of a job. But he can treat you this way?
I’d make myself a game plan. If he’s a family law lawyer then he knows the law better than you do. See your own lawyer. Make a game plan, save some money, involve your friends or family who will support you through this. Figure out a car situation if it’s necessary. Then… just leave. Don’t even have a conversation with him. Let him get home from work one night and you just won’t be there. Leave him your lawyers business card and let him figure it out.
Post # 26
welikeshinystuff : It seems like the root of all these problems is pretty simple: he doesn’t respect you or believe in your ability to carry your weight. Your husband doesn’t consider you an equal, he doesn’t admire you, trust your opinions, etc. You aren’t partners in the way that successfully married people are.
That said, I don’t know that you need to get divorced. If you really love him and you want to move forward I think you can, but things need to change. Maybe you need to communicate with him about the type of partnership you want, about how you’ve changed with regards to your finances, and that you have more than earned that car. Align your financial goals together, tell him you want to be a 50/50 team and work toward a shared future. Then you have to do the actual work, help with planning and budgeting, save a lot more, contribute as much as you can (his plan of buying a house outright is actually a pretty great one, he is setting you both up for financial success).
On the flip side, he needs to seriously and immediately improve in his communication skills and sense of forgiveness and empathy. His behavior is creating an emotional wedge so massive that you’re considering divorce. Is he aware of the effect his actions have on you? How upset you are? He needs to know and change ASAP. I’ve been with my husband since I was 21 (I’m in my 30s), so I know that when you get together young sometimes things are realllly up and down. The thing is, I don’t hold things against my husband (nor does he with me) that happened years ago. Your husband needs to let the past go and start fresh, he needs to chill the fuck out during arguments and always remember that you’re on the same team. You aren’t opponents!
Post # 27
He said he would leave you if you don’t get thinner?
Fuck that noise. You seem to already know the answer to your question. Trust your gut.
Post # 28
I just want to leave another comment letting OP know…it’s okay for you to still love him and care about him. But it’s okay to love and care about yourself too. And sometimes, the hard decision that will momentarily hurt the person you love, just might be what they need and will make them better in the long run. Love is about sacrifice….sometimes that means in a long-lasting marriage….but sometimes that means letting go and moving on.
Post # 29
I got divorced at 29& was married for 6 years. I’m 33 now & happily remarried. I think I knew my ex wasn’t right for me from the beginning but things just kept getting worse after marriage. As much as I wanted children, I couldn’t see him as the father of my kids. I also couldn’t see him ever becoming a family man bc he wasn’t close to his own & did everything he could to avoid my family functions. I did everything by myself bc he never wanted to do anything besides sit at home & stay up late playing video games (which he didn’t do at all until we were married). I knew I wanted to leave way before I did. It took serious courage on my part to be able to leave (not from fear of him or anything like that) but I had to come to terms with being alone & that was hard bc I never had been before. I moved in with my parents til I could get my feet on the ground. It still took me months after moving out to file for divorce. It’s not an easy thing to do but I’m better for it!
It sounds like you are in the same place I was when I knew I needed to leave but lacked the courage. I got into counseling & that was what helped me know it was the right decision & gave me the push I needed to go. It took me about 5-6 months after knowing it’s what I needed to do to actually pull the trigger.
ETA- I an with pp. on the you have to do what’s right for you even if it hurts someone else. I knew this was going to blind side ex husband & struggled over a year with the guilt I felt from that. People kept telling me I have to do what’s best for me but it was hard knowing I was hurting him despite my unhappiness.
Post # 30
welikeshinystuff : I can really share is my experience, but because I don’t know you or your husband, I can only make assumptions based on what you’ve told us.
My ex and I did counseling. He told me that it had worked (we went for 6 months) and he felt we were in a good spot and could stop. So we did. His behavior went right back to the same as it had been before. We divorced anyway. I am glad I tried everything because I can truly tell my daughter that I fought for the marriage and tried everything in my power.
But you don’t have kids with this guy. What is the benefit to staying and fighting like that? From everything you’ve said, he’s verbally abusive, controlling and doesn’t value you as a partner. I’d peace out. He doesn’t sound like the type that’s at all willing to change and there are MUCH better, kinder, more wonderful men out there.