(Closed) this woman is a bad ass

posted 7 years ago in The Lounge
  • poll:
    Hell yeah : (99 votes)
    67 %
    uh no! : (48 votes)
    33 %
  • Post # 32
    Member
    424 posts
    Helper bee
    • Wedding: August 2011

    Its funny to me how the major focus of the bill is on the 20 week provision, which is a relatively small change from what current law is (no abortions after 25 weeks, which is currently deemed as the time when the baby could survive on its own outside of the womb).  But there is so much more to the bill than that, and I feel like if everyone knew the whole story it could hardly be opposed to it.

    The other parts of the bill require clinics to be certified for surgeries (which is essentially what an abortion is) and doctors to have a relationship with a hospital near enough that if something goes wrong they can get their patient to a hospital quickly enough to prevent further injuries.  I don’t know if the people in opposition to the bill have ever had surgery, but I have (recently), and I know that just having the procedure is scary enough without having to wonder whether or not the tools the doctor will use on you are clean, if the staff has the training to deal with unforseen circumstances or if there is a back up plan.

    True, this bill will make it more difficult for women in Texas to obtain abortions, but not because they’re being told not to.  Rather it will be because so many of the clinics are not of high enough quality to obtain the certifications (and who’s to say that they can’t up their standards and get certified).  So, what the opposition to this biil is saying is that convenient, nearby abortions are more important than having safe abortions. And, after seeing what Gosnell did to his patients in Pennsylvannia, I think we owe it to ourselves and our fellow women to protect our health and safety, regardless of whether you’re pro-life or pro-choice.

    Post # 33
    Member
    2755 posts
    Sugar bee

    *sigh*

    NOBODY who gets a late-term abortion does it because they go “zomg I totes don’t wanna be pregs anymore, gonna kill the baybeee”. In fact, almost nobody I have *EVER* met who got an abortion at any time period used it as birth control – I know everyone’s got a friend of an uncle who’s had, like, 25 abortions and eats abortion pills like candy so she can keep being an irresponsible slut. But ya know, I bet we all also knew of some slutty girl in high school/middle school who had to go to the ER after getting a frozen hot dog stuck in her hooha. Urban legends work that way.

    Late-term abortions happen when something is massively, terribly, irreparably WRONG with the fetus and/or mother. They are wanted pregnancies and wanted babies, but sometimes no matter how hard you want something it doesn’t work out. Given the choice, I’d rather the life of the fully-formed human being with a life and people that love her and would be devastated without her be saved.

    Post # 34
    Member
    291 posts
    Helper bee

    @Jellybones:  Better sexual education and readily available birth control and information would be a good step firward in terms of reducing abortions rates.

    Yesssssssssssss.

    Post # 35
    Member
    237 posts
    Helper bee
    • Wedding: August 2013

    I love how we live in a country where we say we have fredom of speech, but this goes to show you that we do not. So glad I live in Oregon. I would be ashamed if I lived in Texas. Being a feminist I would not do so well living there.

    Post # 36
    Member
    4522 posts
    Honey bee
    • Wedding: September 2014

    In the interview with her, she told this little story about a woman testifying before her that makes me want to flip my desk over:

    “Finally, after I saw a woman named Vanessa (@lochnessa) testify angrily about the heartbreaking medically necessary abortion she had to have after countless IVF attempts, I knew I had to rewrite. Their baby had rare form of spina bifida and a 20 week ban would have hurt them. After she spoke, an antichoice next to her cruelly said ‘I know people who adopted two children with spina bifida’.”

    I would have smacked her in the mouth.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/09/1222326/-Interview-with-Victorian-Prude-the-woman-forcibly-removed-from-testifying-in-Texas

    Post # 37
    Member
    246 posts
    Helper bee
    • Wedding: February 2016

    Abortion is such a heated issue on both sides.  Basically the facts are that in countries that have legalized abortion have fewer abortions.  Usually because there is more information and better contraceptives.

    My personal idea has always been that if you don’t believe in something don’t do it.  Science really has some valid arguments for both sides of this.

    Honestly I think that it was unfair that she was removed from speaking.  Even though she got emotional, I believe that everybody should have the right to make their point.  She wasn’t being violent, she was just pointing out her point.

    Post # 38
    Member
    1258 posts
    Bumble bee
    • Wedding: May 2014

    First off…I usually avoid posts like these simply because it just turns into a fight that has no end. I do want to say that I honestly didn’t understand really anything she was talking about, I feel she was being very disrespectful, regardless if what she was saying was correct or not.  You can still get your point across without calling names and judging people you don’t even know.

    As far as pro-life/pro-choice (which I believe is what this was about) I’m pro-life all the way. True, is it fair for me to tell someone what they can/can’t do with their body…no, it’s not, however, the life growing inside is a totally different individual who has no one to defend him or her.  We need to focus more on bringing up our girls (and boys) to value themsevles and save themsevles for marriage to avoid unwanted pregnancies…not a quick “solution” to a “problem” (aka baby).

    This world is a sad place….do we not value human life anymore??

    Post # 39
    Member
    1521 posts
    Bumble bee

    @Jellybones:  I agree with u it is worth getting upset ovr but in such a diplomatic setting it gave them a reason to remove her and make her statements seem null and void.

    Post # 40
    Member
    2295 posts
    Buzzing bee
    • Wedding: September 2013

    @megan331979:  “We need to focus more on bringing up our girls (and boys) to value themsevles and save themsevles for marriage to avoid unwanted pregnancies.”

    Teaching abstinence is not the solution.  It’s why in states that do teach primarily abstinence, teen pregnancy rates are higher.  Teenagers are going to have sex.  People are going to have sex.  We need to focus on teaching proper use of birth control and making it easily and readily available.  I agree that abortion should not, under any circumstance, be looked at as a “quick solution to a problem.”  But I think the core issue here is that government should not be able to dictate people’s personal lives and choices, be it who they marry, what relgion they practice, or what they do with their own bodies. 

    @badabing88:  This makes me so mad.  Seriously. 

    Post # 41
    Member
    1090 posts
    Bumble bee
    • Wedding: May 2014

    @megan331979:  The people who testified before this woman got to call thousands of women murderers and promiscuous. That is disrepsectful.
    You cannot legislate morality on the masses. And please don’t say that this is pro-life vs. pro-choice because there is nothing pro-life about the government of TX. If you want to talk about valuing human lives, I hope that you are for social services and anti death penalty.

    Post # 42
    Member
    983 posts
    Busy bee
    • Wedding: February 2015

    @megan331979:  a large percentage of women who get abortions are married and most of them are already  mothers.

    Again, respectfully, I reiterate that any hypothetical life growing inside of me will only do so with my consent. I understand that some people believe a fetus should have personhood, though at this point, fetal personhood is mostly theoretical. A pregnant person’s personhood is definite and an integral part of their humanity. I can’t think of anything more selfish than forcing a woman through pregnancy and childbirth against her will, to the detriment of her physical, mental and emotional health (not to mention that of those who depend on her) under the guise of valuing human life. I value human life and human rights which is why I am vehemently pro-choice in every circumstance. 

    Post # 43
    Member
    4522 posts
    Honey bee
    • Wedding: September 2014

    @megan331979:  …I’m sorry: but having sex before marriage has nothing to do with a lack of self-value.

    Your values and restrictions and religious rules do not apply to all of us. To imply I, and other women, somehow have less self-worth/self-value because we didn’t “save it until marriage” is beyond insulting.

     

    @Audrey2_sings:  +1

     

    @bellaluna290:  +1

     

    Post # 44
    Member
    491 posts
    Helper bee
    • Wedding: October 2013

    This is a really interesting blog about a girl that changed her opinions about the pro-life movement. She details how she slowly found out that the policies put forward are actually more about forcing women to conform to a certain idea of morality and punishing them for having sex. How banning abortions while discouraging contraception use actually leads to an increase in abortions and more health problems because they are illegally done and unsafe. 

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-lost-faith-in-the-pro-life-movement.html

    Post # 45
    Member
    2515 posts
    Sugar bee
    • Wedding: September 2014

    To further clarify my views:

     

    As for whether or not the majority of women use abortion as after-the-fact birth control: Do I have references/facts? No. I do have friends in my life as a teen that had abortions. More than one girl, and in some case, more than one abortion in a short amount of time. Personal anecdote. I realize that’s not scientifically acceptable. Another poster mentioned the majority of women were using birth control when they got pregnant. She has no more facts to back that up than I do. Also, using birth control here and there ( i.e. improperly, missing multiple pills, forgetting condoms ) is not the same as actively being on birth control in my opinion. 

    I feel very strongly about birth control. I watched many friends get pregnant. We were all promiscuous. I did not have sex ed, and I do not come from a family with high levels of education or wealth. I still knew enough before having sex to go to my local Planned Parenthood and immediately start the pill and to use condoms. I also used Planned Parenthood to make sure I got HIV tests every couple of years. I knew that I had risky sexual and drug behaviors. I’m not a saint. When used properly, birth control is 99% reliable. In my experience, it’s also easily obtainable. The statement about after-the-fact BC is not coming from a place of judgment. It’s coming from what I have witnessed. I have actually accompanied friends to abortion clinics so that they would have support, though I disagreed strongly with the decision and am bothered by being a silent partner in it to this day.

    Most of the girls I knew and women I currently know have gotten pregnant while not using birth control. Unplanned babies but with no plans of using protection. It’s a contradiction that bothers me greatly. More anecdotal evidence, but if you watch shows like Teen Mom, you will see a trend of nothing being done to prevent conception.

    I do have one hard fact: Since 1967, over 56,000,000 babies have been aborted in the US alone. 56 million. I realize that is hard to conceptualize, but that is a staggering number. That should be an alarming number. That should be a frightening number. At current abortion rates ( provided by Planned Parenthood itself with no bias ) 33% of American women will have an abortion at some point.

    I find it very hard to believe that a woman’s choice to have an abortion is being seriously impeded by abortion legislature when the numbers are so very, very high.

    As for low-cost clinics: That brings me back to low-cost clinics. Obviously, despite being pro-life, I have used Planned Parenthood. I have respect for low-cost women’s health clinics. They serve a very vital role for women. At the same time, it disturbs me that these organizations provide so many abortions. There is a reason abortion bills tend to go after them.

    While I use Planned Parenthood, it would be wise for people to do more reading about that history of that organization and comments made by its founder. There is some truly shocking stuff there.

    Personhood: The contradictions as pointed out by Carolf are many. I have personal beliefs stemming from religion. I believe a child has a soul as soon as those first cells form.

    Religion aside, there are too many legal and societal contradictions. Miscarriage is tragic. Abortion is nothing more than doctor-assisted miscarriage. Causing harm to a pregnant woman can lead to a charge of murder due to loss of pregnancy. How can we, as a society, reconcile these things? If it is murder for an outside person to brutalize a pregant woman to the point that she loses that child, how is it not murder for that woman to abort? I don’t say that to offend or to make those here who have had abortions feel horrible. I say it because surely it must be recognized that a serious contradiction exists there.

    As for the 20 weeks thing, a 5-month-old fetus can feel pain. Nerves are connected at that point. That child can hear. That child can suck his thumb. That child is moving inside you. I can’t comprehend abortion at that stage. It’s horrifying.

    My religion would call for me to support a total ban on abortion. I am torn, but there is a bit of a gray area to me. I do worry about young girls and back-alley abortions. But abortion reform? Tougher laws? Absolutely. 56,000,000 aborted children. Our society has become too numb.

     

     

     

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