(Closed) Those who can and cannot afford kids…..

posted 7 years ago in Parenting
Post # 17
Member
855 posts
Busy bee

Contraceptives are free in the UK (where this couple live).

The chavs should just be fitted with the implant every 3 years and be done with it.

ETA: It’s a common thing in the UK for some people to deliberately have more kids so they can sponge more money for them and get a bigger house. Unbelievable.

Post # 18
Member
7977 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

@Miss Jackrabbit:  “Contraceptives are free in the UK (where this couple live).

The chavs should just be fitted with the implant every 3 years and be done with it.

ETA: It’s a common thing in the UK for some people to deliberately have more kids so they can sponge more money for them and get a bigger house. Unbelievable.”

Ha! I’m betraying my socialist roots by agreeing with you here, but I do. Years ago, I would have been more sympathetic. Then I worked for minimum wage and lived in poor areas amongst these types of guys. I soon became less sympathetic.

I’ll tell you who I do feel for… I once worked with a guy who had 3 jobs. He worked as a pub chef, on the meat counter at Sainsbury’s, and he did manual labour whenever he could. His wife worked on the meat counter, took in laundry, and cleaned houses. They had three children. They hardly ever saw them, or each other. That’s the reality of life on minimum wage. This is why we need a living wage, not a minimum wage. And this is also why we need to protect certain aspects of our benefits system, because an average recipiant of benefits is more likely to be working for a low wage than not working at all.

… but… by subsidising people on low wages, we are effectively helping greedy employers to keep wages low. Is that a good use of state funds?

Of course, a compassionate society cannot allow anyone to starve. But I don’t see why they need their own houses. Until recently, our soldiers lived in accommodation where they just had a bedroom, and the rest of the living was communal. Most of our students also live like this. If it’s good enough for them…

… then why not move families which have never been in work to student halls/barrack style accommodation where they get served 3 meals a day from the communal kitchen, and they share a communal lounge area. It would improve their diet, and make them a lot keener to actually get a job, whilst preventing them from starving. It would also prevent greedy private landlords from artificially keeping rental prices high because they know that the social housing system will pay, therefore penalising workers even more.

Post # 20
Member
291 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: January 2011

Watched ‘how to get a council house’ last night. Makes me angry that the pregnant 17yo and her bf are not working but are instead happily busying themselves with baby making. Where’s the responsibility gone?

 

Just read the article. Had a chuckle at the fact that they share a bedroom with their kids and yet they still managed to bang more out- with ‘chronic back pain’ no less! Now that’s dedication to the cause! 

 

Post # 21
Member
11 posts
Newbee

@Aelie:  honestly, if you can’t afford $30 a month for birth control, you can’t afford another kid and it is probably worth the $30 month investment…I just don’t find that a valid excuse for an adult woman or couple for the matter who choose to have a sexual relationship.

Post # 22
Member
3075 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: April 2013 - A court...

Exactly they can’t afford birth control but kids are nbd? Sigh. I told dh I will not have a kid if we can’t afford it.

Post # 23
Member
213 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: October 2013

@tinybee:  that’s why we are not having another child, because we can’t afford another one. But I don’t need pills to prevent pregnancy. I just think $30 a month is too much for pills.

Post # 24
Member
742 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: December 2012

@Rachel631:  I also feel like i’m betraying my socialist roots by agreeing but I do agree that there are some people who have children to get more money from the state. I don’t think it’s the norm but i’ve met them so I know they exist. 

I have less sympathy as an adult. I’ve been on benefits, it was horrid and I worked for free the whole time to have some self esteem. When I got lucky and got hired (after the job centre told me to take my degree and teaching post grad certificate off my cv and I fought them but that’s another story) we worked our butts off saving to buy a house and lived with my family as we saved. A job centre person mentioned to me if I had a baby I’d get more money and a house but I don’t think that’s what babies are for. 

I’m a teacher and i’ve had people (parents!) in the past ask why I didn’t have kids yet at the ancient age of 26. We aren’t stable enough just yet but some people don’t think that’s a good “excuse”. They have children because it’s just what you do, not because they thought about it and decided they were ready to be parents. 

Until recently I was on the contraceptive injection, I came off because i’ve been on it for nearly 10 years and bone problems begin to be a concern. Every time I went in I was offered free condoms, latex free because i’m allergic and those are expensive. All contraception is free here for everyone, they warn you not to rely on one type they warn that if you have multiple partners you should always use a barrier too. I know sometimes mistakes are made but there’s a 2 bed house down the road with eleven children in it. The dad doesn’t remember all their names for goodness sake. Both parents are unemployed, I know what that feels like but I know I didn’t have time for all that sexing when I was unemployed because I was depressed and working hard to get a job! 

Post # 25
Member
7977 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

@Anardana:  Yeah, being unemployed is ****.

I’m 30 in a few weeks. I was one of the generation who grew up in the 80s and 90s when the economy was expanding and we were taught that if we worked hard and got a good degree, you’d be guaranteed a career.

I finished my masters. I already had a job lined up. Then… do you remember how the recession seemed to hit really suddenly? Like how the banks all went down like in bowling within a really short space of time, and then lending seized up almost immediately?

That happened about 2 weeks before I was due to start my job. They called and said they had gone bankrupt. So then I called the other people who had offered me jobs a few months/weeks earlier and they all turned me down. I thought it would be easy to get another job, but I applied for over 200 jobs over the next few months and only had 2 interviews.

In the end, I got so desperate that I started on the minimum wage treadmill. I had to. They gave me £35 a week in unemployment to live on after I’d been unemployed for 5 months, because I had worked throughout uni and had savings. I had to take minimum wage to avoid destitution.

I only left that job because I got PhD funding. Soon, that will finish and I will need to look for work again. I’m dreading it because I’m worried my CV doesn’t exactly look great. Also, the people a bit older than me managed to get experience before the recession, and those a bit younger found it that little bit easier to get on the career ladder because the economic situation wasn’t *quite* as dire. I’m worried that I’m not a great employment catch. I’m also worried about when to start TTC, how long I can afford to wait, job hunting whilst pregnant… the lot.

I sometimes think: wouldn’t it be nice to simply lie back, do whatever I want, and get paid for it? But I want more than that… and I don’t think it’s fair that we should subsidise those who don’t to live nicer lives than those who work really hard for timy wages.

Post # 26
Member
1460 posts
Bumble bee

@azzie17:  I feel sorry for the children. Their quality of life cant be very good. 

Is this real? You can be be poor and have a very good quality of life with parents and family that love you, you might not wear the latest and greatest fashions or go to the top private schools but that doesn’t mean life sucks. I’d imagine the probability is the same as having well-off parents who are neglectful or assholes.
 
 

Post # 28
Member
746 posts
Busy bee

@Sassygrn:  +1

@BushelAndAPeck:  +1

Wow, there’s a lot of (potentially baseless) judgement going on in this thread.  

Are there people who “game the system”?  Sure.  But that doesn’t call for broad generalizations like “they should be fitted with an implant every 3 years” or some such nonsense.  That’s reductionist and doesn’t really address the root of such a complex social issue.  

Also, FWIW I grew up in an affluent area and knew a lot of kids who had very financially secure parents… and said parents were complete assholes.  Just because someone doesn’t have a lot of money doesn’t mean they can’t be a good parent, and just because someone has a lot of money doesn’t mean they’ll be good at parenting.  /end rant

 

 

Post # 29
Member
1521 posts
Bumble bee

@Rachel631:  that’s easy to say wen u r on the other side, what your suggesting is called a shelter and it is not a place for adults let alone children. Although I do agree with you on the living wage part there is a reason that welfare systems are in place. If you research the history it brought our nation out of spiraling poverty and helped reshape the depressed morale of the American ppl. Not saying that ppl dnt take advantage of the system, of course they do! But that’s a handful of ppl. The rest truly need it. I’ve volunteered at shelters ive seen ppl struggle to find a job and even when employed still cnt put food on the table. I’ve seen a girl cry bcz she couldn’t buy formula for her baby so she had to give her water! It’s easy to say just throw the proverished to the waist side but many dnt realize it will cause the nation to b dragged down by poverty.

Post # 31
Member
916 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: September 2012

@azzie17:  Yeah…Mother-In-Law was wealthy when she and Father-In-Law adopted their kids. They probably spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on in vitro and the adoption process. But that does not mean they should have been parents, they kind of emotionally scared their children for life.

I know of families who are barely making ends meet though that have tons of kids…they’re not relatives but my dad does send them money and food and you do have to wonder about that. It probably doesn’t help that they’re Catholic either >.< Where we come from, birth control is looked down upon.

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