(Closed) Those who can and cannot afford kids…..

posted 7 years ago in Parenting
Post # 32
Member
55 posts
Worker bee
  • Wedding: April 2012

I agree. It’s sadly like the first 10 minutes of the movie Idiocracy. The people who should be having kids aren’t and the folks that shouldn’t be having kids are…

 

Post # 33
Member
168 posts
Blushing bee
  • Wedding: June 2015

@Aquaria:  +1000 the absolute best set of parents I know have three young children. They do not live extrqvagently or meet the criteria for wealthy because they spend all their time and money on their kids. The kids definitely show the benefits of all the love and effort. What they are doing isn’t easy or necessarily profitable but wow they are doing  great! 

 

Edit: to change my seriously questionable ability to type this morning. I need a coffee! 

Post # 34
Member
223 posts
Helper bee
  • Wedding: August 2014

My birth control is $35 a month. Does it break the bank? No. 

 

But, I think $35 is a lot of money to pay for medicine………when I’m not even sick…………. 

 

 

🙁

Post # 35
Member
9681 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper

I guess everyone has a different idea of what financially stable means, and when an appropriate time to have children is. I certainly don’t agree with people having multiple children and living off the system, but it’s not my life so there’s nothing I can do about it.

ETA: yes the pill is expensive, but condoms aren’t. Many organizations give them out free. And if people stop and think for a minute, children cost a LOT more than $40/month. So if you can’t afford the pill, how can you afford a kid? Or two?

Post # 36
Member
609 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: October 2013

I am pretty horrified by some of these posts. It really shows how out of touch some people are with the state of this world. 

Post # 37
Member
5188 posts
Bee Keeper
  • Wedding: February 2013

My mom is a nurse at a public STD clinic. Condoms are very easy to get for free. You can grab as many as you want out of a jar, like pens at the bank!

Post # 38
Member
7977 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

@babypearls:  I’m not suggesting a shelter at all. I’m suggesting living quarters which are identical to the quarters in which our entire armed forces (until recently) and about 95% of our UK student population currently live… with their families and their children, if applicable.

Nobody is complaining that students live in squalor which is unsuitable for them and their children. Likewise, I don’t see soldiers complaining. Some of the sheltered accommodation for the elderly is also very similar to the conditions I described, and there are huge queues to live in sheltered accommodation. In addition, both of my parents lived in accommodation similar to that whilst they were training, and I myself have lived in that sort of communal fashion for much of my adult life. I see nothing wrong with it, and I don’t see why non-working people should get houses, which they live in without any room-mates, for free, whilst working people rent a room in a house shared with 6 or 7 other people (which is often the case in London for young people in particular).

Now, I am not American. And I do know that your welfare system is incredibly ungenerous from the position of a European. But many PPs are talking here from the perspective of the UK. In the UK, we spend over 65% of our money as a nation, each year, on the welfare state. Compare that to the US for a second…

The problem that the UK has is that we are now in a position where many families are now actually better off if they don’t work. Not only that, but benefits allow people to live quite nice lives… they can live in central London in places where workers cannot afford to rent housing, for example, because of housing benefit (which used to be uncapped… meaning that you could live in a large, central London house completely paid for by the state… it is now capped).

The question is how to address this whilst providing safety nets for the genuinely needy. It’s a very different question to the one the US is facing, because the situation is so different. This is why we UK bees are getting rather cross!

Post # 39
Member
816 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: September 2013

This is a rather tricky topic.  Sometimes perfecty normal family end up unemployed, on benefits, etc. and they are no less capable than a well off family.  Sometimes a condition like this, and a family that support their kids can end up being far better than a well-off family that neglects their kids.

That being said, I do know where the comment comes from.  There are cases where families who can’t afford kids end up getting more kids.  Some of these families have little knowledge of family planning, have other thoughts which hinder them from applying this, and in some cases outright don’t care.  It is very tough to judge which situation applies sadly and kids end up being hurt in these later environments.  Ultimately I’d love to see family planning based on ability (as in the basic necessities) but I fear the only way is through education and where that fails at least ensure that kids will not be harmed in a negligent environment.

Post # 40
Member
2966 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: May 2014

Reminds me of Idiocracy, especially the beginning of the movie. It’s sad because it’s partly true. 

To those of you who say ” oh there’s more to the story than that”… yeah, of course there is. However, the numbers don’t lie.

 

Post # 41
Member
1521 posts
Bumble bee

@Rachel631:  my mom is from london and I must say the system is great over there compared to the US. So u have definitely changed the way I saw ur comment. I was in the military in the US (army) and I won’t say it was a walk in the park as far as communal living. But if they cn provide quarters where they do not try to dictate ur life and ensure clean decent living quarters,I believe that it could b a resolution . I think the problem is bridging the gap. Middle class gets taxed their last dime, those on welfare receive money from taxes, while students r in loans with minimal assistance or tax help, and the rich utilize their resources to maneuver around the taxation.Honestly how do we bridge the many holes we hav in order to push our nations forward. I think the OP is touching on a small subject of a bigger problem. We need to educate and build the poverished communities without giving innumerable handouts, humble the rich and show gratitude to the middle class bcz without them there would b an unbalanced society

 

Post # 42
Member
7977 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

@babypearls:  I don’t disagree! The difficulty lies in finding a balance.

Post # 43
Member
742 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: December 2012

@Rachel631:  I spent the first few years of my life in military accomodation, my bff grew up there. It’s small but it’s safe and your parents have lots of friends who are nice and everyone understands each other. My mum was really pleased to have somewhere to live we could never have afforded to buy a house down on the south coast where all the ports are and it allowed us to be close to my navy father. After a few years we moved back north to be near family because dad was away so often as a sailor we often saw him for just a few days a year. The military are more generous with family time now so we might have stayed. 

My Bff’s daughter spent her first year in student accomodation with my Bff and my now husband and I who were all housemates. It wasn’t ideal but my bff is stubbornly independant and now lives in her own little home . My husband and I are godparents to her daughter, and I know my friend appreciated the help settling in as an accidental single mum who had never planned on children. She’s worked so hard to stand on her own two feet and be a good example to her daughter. We both strongly support the welfare system as a safety net, we’ve been through some tough times where it hasn’t caught us so we know it isn’t a golden net as the newspapers think but there definately are problems when some people exploit the system and some people in need can’t use it! I was told by the job centre woman that the benefit system isn’t for “people like you who need help for a year or less, have qualifications and fell out of uni into the recession” but when I asked my MP he said that’s exactly what it is for, to help people get their feet on the ground, find work and move on. Clearly he needs to have words with the jc!

There are people trapped on benefits who couldn’t afford to work because of high childcare costs and awful pay and conditions who would much rather be self reliant and changing the system is more about freeing people like that than punishing the relatively few abusing it because while those few are intensley annoying the core of the problem is the possibility for them to stay on benefits for three generations and get more money than if they worked. If we have a proper living wage as you suggested and fair working conditions with a boost in jobs it will be easier to find the people who truly avoid working and give them help and advice, as well as free the people stuck who don’t want to be! That would be better for everybody’s children. 

Post # 44
Member
7977 posts
Bumble Beekeeper
  • Wedding: July 2013 - UK

@Anardana:  I agree with you too… the problem is that, at the moment, the system doesn’t catch those who just need a leg up (and it should do… after all, it is those people who are more likely to use that boost and then start paying back into the system within a short space of time). It also supports greedy employers, and greedy landlords, because it means that people can just move into private accommodation, landlords can set rent at whatever they like, and then the council will just pay. That also pushes up rents for the rest of us.

At least housing benefit caps and communal living council accommodation would prevent landlords from exploiting the system in ways which are to everyone’s detriment.

Also, who wins from a system which effectively subsidises super low wages? It’s not the worker, who has to get from the state what they should have been paid by their employer. It’s not the state, who has to shell out lots of cash. Effectively, a lot of benefits are for the advantage of employers, and that’s not what they are designed for. I’m hoping this type of thing is slowly on the way out… after all, this was part of the point of the recent pension reforms; to shift more responsibility for the employee onto the employer. But we are still a long way off having a living wage.

Obviously, we know the system has to change… we’re just debating how!

Post # 45
Member
131 posts
Blushing bee
  • Wedding: October 2013

I wanted to add that those who are NOT gaming the system and are using the system only because they have to…. have a hard time getting out of the system. Once you start to get ahead, the officals see this and cut your benefits immediately. So when you were actually getting ahead, reaching that transition point of not needing govt benefits, you are back to square one, trying to get ahead all over again. 

I think if the govt gave time to transition off the benefits, they would see less people going back to benefits. This could be why people feel the need to “game” te system, because as soon as they get ahead, they get pushed back down again!

It is an endless cycle.

I have seen this happen to my friend. She finally had savings and was about to be on track. They cut her benefits and she had to use all her savings to pay for her kids medical care. Since she was cut off so abruptly, she hadnt even gotten a chance to buy her and her kids insurance!! so all that savings went quick for the insurance and food and she had to reapply for benefits and start saving all over again. She now saves in cash, which i suppose is “gaming” the system, but i think she is saving her ass so she can get off benefits without being thrown off a cliff

 

Post # 46
Member
2571 posts
Sugar bee
  • Wedding: November 2013

@Aquaria:  This.

 

I am absolutely baffled as to how people seem to forget condoms exist when making these “My BC is too expensive” arguments. So they don’t feel as good, but neither does 9 months of pregnancy when you are not ready. That’s all that Fiance and I use bc I can’t handle hormonal contraceptives. Not ideal, but we take responsibility for our sex life and deal with it.

 

The topic ‘Those who can and cannot afford kids…..’ is closed to new replies.

Find Amazing Vendors