Post # 31
“I would still be happier with a courthouse wedding.”
After what you wrote in your OP? Reread your OP a thousand times. If your friend wrote this post, would you advise her to stay or leave??
Your Fiance is not a good man. He is selfish and thinks only about himself. He wants you to pay 50/50 rent even when he very well knows you will make less money than him. I’ve seen a lot of bees here paying in proportion to how much they earn, not “50/50”. He expects you to pay for ALL of your own wedding expenses (why should photography be paid by you? Is he not going to be in any of the photos?). He will keep all the rent money from his friends, while you struggle to keep up with your own rent to his home.
If you decide to be a Stay-At-Home Mom, he very well should contribute to your retirement, because being a Stay-At-Home Mom is a job.
He has no respect for you at all.
I’m sorry your family disowned you. Hopefully they will be more supportive in the future.
Post # 32
A woman who sacrificed her own retirement savings and job prospects and worked in the home instead, making her Dh’s job easier, reducing the days he needed to take off and making it likelier for him to get promoted (because he didn’t have to worry about anything at home) EARNED half his retirement and half the equity in the home. Do you seriously believe that a woman who kept the home, reduced the Dh’s burden, cared for the children (likely day AND night), took care of everything child-related (dr.’s appointments, dental appointments, school conferences, school field trips, play dates, sports events, attending school-related events, etc.) deserves to be dumped 20-some years on and left with nothing? No retirement. No equity in the home. No individual savings.
Yes, that is being a DOORMAT. Anyone who believes that a woman should sacrifice her career and future security only to be dumped and left penniless is not anyone I’d want to associate with. He’s watching out for himself. You need to do the same. Play hardball and tell him that he’s proven that he cannot be trusted to look out for your best interests and that you no longer wish to marry someone like that.
But whatever you do, DON’T marry this guy. And don’t play the “he’s emotionally scarred” card. He’s just being a selfish asshole.
Post # 33
asteraceae : I think renting for half the mortgage is pretty common amongst dating couples, as half the mortgage is well below what rooms/houses actually rent for, and the person with the mortgage would be responsible for all repairs and upkeep costs (I’m not sure how tenant rights come into play).
Who told you that was the norm? Because it is certainly NOT the norm. As for dating couples, you arent a dating couple. You are engaged to get married. The norm is that when an engaged couple goes house hunting they buy the house together. If he is the primary bread winner, then he makes the mortgage payment and then the other might pay the utilities as a split. If you are combining finances then it all comes out of the same account.
If he is so concerned that you wont get and keep a job, then why marry you at all? If he is concerned about that then why not put off the wedding until you get a job?
You cant see the forest for the trees. If he was considering your feelings at all he wouldnt be taking his friends house hunting instead of the person he is suppose to share his life with. Basically what he is saying is his comfort and that of his friends come before your comfort.
Trust me this crap is awful. My niece just gave birth and while she was in labor and she was in medical distress and her baby was in medical distress, he disavowed her wishes and allowed a sick person to enter her hospital room and try to hold her child while the doctors were trying to save her life and the babys life. While she was laboring, he was a sleep and couldnt even be bothered to help her with labor….he cared more about the comfort of his family than the comfort of his wife and child.
That could be you in a few years.
Post # 34
This is like watching a horror movie when you can see the serial killer behind the victim but the victim can’t.
please reconsider how your future looks like with someone like that. I wish you good luck and as for advice, LEAVE him
Post # 35
asteraceae : Wait….you pay half the mortgage while his friends can stay for $100-$200 to save money?!?!? Holy crap, that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a while and I’m a therapist.
Post # 36
Bee – I’m worried for you.
You sound like a very smart, self-assured, woman. But sometimes, we can have blind spots. I don’t want to armchair psychoanalyze you, but coming from an extremely repressive home may have made it difficult for you to see the reality of your situation.
I’m sure your partner has good qualities, but there are a LOT of red flags here which indicate that he’s got extremely controlling tendencies. It doesn’t matter that you consider him (or he considers himself to be) progressive, leftie, egalitarian, etc… often, the men that proclaim themselves to be “woke” or “progressive” can be the worst abusers.
I wonder about his motives. Does he really want to be the only one with his name on the deed of the house because of his “feelings about the divorce”? Hmm… maybe. It could also be because he wants to control the finances so things benefit him and not you? Either way, the result is exactly the same. What do you think could happen years down the line if you divorce or separate? You’d have nothing. At that point, you might even have children and be left alone to support them. This comment is a huge red flag to me: “Fiance is willing to support me financially 100% (excluding money toward my retirement)”. That’s truly bizarre… so he’ll support you financially in your marriage… but then later in life, leave you high and dry?? From everything you’ve said, it’s very clear that he wants to be in control. Of you, of your finances, and of your relationship.
Some other things that worry me: he’s got a good job and knows you’re actively looking for a job, but can’t even spend a few hundred dollars to buy you a nice dress or let you get your hair done? To me, that’s not frugality, it’s… a lack of compassion. Maybe even downright mean.
It sounds like you’re on your own. You’re isolated, potentially lonely, and lacking people who can give you real advice and perspective. I would strongly urge you to think very carefully before you go through with this wedding.
Post # 37
OMG RED FLAGS up and down, girl! Don’t marry this guy! No, no, no! You are totally being taken advantage of. If you were my sister or my daughter or anyone really, I would say run. You are young and there are so many better guys out there. I’m sure you are a wonderful, bright woman. Be with someone who respects you and truly treats you as an equal. This guy is paternalistic, condescending, patronizing, unkind, and not remotely generous. As someone who is quite cheap, I can tell you that’s just the tip of the iceberg with this guy, whatever this is is something else. There’s something deep beneath that and I don’t think it will make him a good partner. Hoping the best for you.
- We’ve never had a single argument. It’s good to practice working through conflict before marriage.
- Fiance has taken a much less “permanent” view of marriage Yikes!
- wants our future mortgage/house to be solely in his name (with me paying “rent”) and wants our finances to be completely separate (which is not quite what we wanted before). A home is an investment. You’re contributing without any benefit.
- but while I think about things like how safe the neighborhood is (we looked at one house with bullet holes from a drive-by shooting!) and how good the schools are, Fiance says he doesn’t care about those things at all. It doesn’t seem like he values your opinion.
- Fiance is more concerned with a huge shop and three-car garage (which I won’t be allowed to use). This is not kind or egalitarian as you described him.
- He’s brought friends along to look at houses because he wants to rent out extra rooms to them (for $100-$200 a month, to help them save money). How do you feel about that?
- After we get married, FI says he’s willing to pay “my rent” until I have a job, but then expects me to pay half the mortgage in rent. Yikes, “expects me,” it sounds so paternal.
- I feel like I don’t have a say in any of this because I’m unemployed, and so it would be FI’s house, with Fiance paying the mortgage and the down payment on the house. You feel like you don’t have a say because the way things are going, you don’t. A good partner gives you equal say even if they have the economic advantage or are the breadwinner at the moment.
- he insists that I cover all “my” expenses (the dress, makeup, hair, nails, accessories, etc.) and all of the “frivolous expenses” (my bouquet, all decorations, linens, chairs, RSVPs, photographer, etc.) I’m not a flashy person into all of the fixings, but even then, it is so condescending to describe everything you might want as frivoulus. Also, he’s the one that wants the “proper” wedding. Those things come with that.
- it feels like he’s already preparing for our divorce, and it hurts. Is that really where you want to start on day 1 of your marriage?
- I wish I could afford couples counseling, and maybe individual counseling, but I just can’t afford it. If you want that at this point, I just think this is a bad idea.
- Fiance resents the fact, that in the divorce, the parent who didn’t work will still be receiving half of the working parent’s retirement/savings. Fiance is afraid I’ll be lazy and refuse to get and keep a good job Disgusting – He thinks so little of you!
Post # 38
asteraceae : You did not have any choice regarding the family you were born into; you were dealt a really crappy hand there.
However, you do have a choice regarding your life partner. That you are bending over backwards to justify this guy’s inexcusable behavior is very concerning. I truly hope that you will get to see things with clarity before you forfeit any chance of happiness, which is what would happen if you stay with this “person”.
Post # 39
- Wedding: December 1969 - Montsalvat, Victoria
Bee, I literally logged myself in specifically to reply to this thread. Run for the hills!! Your fiancé sounds like he’s using his parents divorce (as sad as it may be) to financially manipulate you into a very precarious situation. Your “rent” contribution would be half of the mortgage correct? Then I’m sorry but by default you would be entitled to half of the house. My husband is a lawyer and I just told him this story – he started laughing hysterically at this concept of your rent being a 50% monthly contribution to his mortgage. Your husbands story wouldn’t even have legs in a courtroom.
Second to this notion of paying rent to service your fiancée mortgage, I personally have no issues with not merging finances. It can be messy and my husband and I still haven’t done it even though we were married in August. We both work full time, are busy, we have trust funds and pre-marital assets and things that can make a financial merge complicated so we need to find time to sit down with the banks and possibly lawyers to sort it all out. MOST IMPORTANTLY however, we don’t view our money as mine or his. It’s just whoever has their wallet on them at the time will pay. The point of what I’m trying to say here is that sure you don’t necessarily need to merge finances however you do need to appreciate and have the same view on finances as A COUPLE. It is a fundamental part of marriage and should never be a view of mine/his/hers, at this stage you should be at the point of “our”. If you aren’t I suggest you guys sit down and have a heart to hear the on this.
I hope you find clarity from myself and other pp and maybe pump those breaks on the wedding planning until you and your fiancé have a good talk on all of this.
Post # 40
asteraceae : Everyone here has given you really good advice.
Bee, I am so, so scared for you. I’m literally terrified. I understand that you have taken huge, bold steps away from your family and I can’t believe how strong and brave you are to have done that. It’s incredible. But then I see you marrying this man as you described him and please believe me that while you can’t see it yourself, you are heading for a whole different type of controlling, abusive situation. I am so, so sorry that you find yourself in a position in which this type of man looks good to you.
I am so scared that you won’t listen to what people here are telling you and will marry this man. You have so much potential in your life and it will be ruined by this marriage. You have the opportunity to move on and marry someone who wants to be truly equal, who will support you and will treat you so much better. When you find him you will be incredulous that you almost wasted your life on this marriage. I hope you make that choice.
The bees on this board are coming from all over the world, from different religious backgrounds, from different socieconomic statuses, from different cultures. And all of them are really clear: this is not a good man to marry. Please, please, please save yourself from this before it’s too late.
Post # 41
This post is seriously real?
Ok, if you pay “rent” in his house then he can pay you $100K/ month for carrying his children. That should help with the fact you’re giving up building your career/retirement etc that he won’t help you with. What a dirt bag.
Post # 42
asteraceae : ok, you’re smart, hard-working and dedicated. You’ve put yourself through college, despite your family not agreeing and knowing that would end your relationship with them. You’ve worked 80 hour weeks during the summer and despite being unemployed for 2 months you still have enough money to last you for four months.
So what the hell is with this blind spot for your fiancé?
He doesn’t see you sacrificing your career for children as any advantage to him and he isn’t prepared to sacrifice his retirement for you. He’s willing to sacrifice his potential savings for his buddies, renting them cheap rooms. Why doesn’t his wife deserve at least the same consideration?
Honestly, he is preparing to divorce you. He wants you to have kids and then he’ll wait until the kids are in college and divorce you, leaving you with nothing. That is his plan, not the bull shit he’s telling you.
You’re struggling to get a job but I would apply anywhere. Your family are dicks. Your fiancé is a dick. Just apply for jobs anywhere and use this opportunity to start over somewhere new. When you get there and get yourself set up, get some therapy to deal with your parents.
Armchair psychology here – do you think because you’ve been disowned by your family that you’re desperate for a family? He has a large extended family that is very prominent in the community. Do you want to part of that family and what it brings with it and willing to overlook your fiancé?
Also, the wedding planners pressuring you? It’s because they want your business. Ignore them.
Post # 43
OP, this is a major sliding doors moment for you. It sounds like you will proceed with this absolute shit show of a ‘relationship’ despite what all the bees here are telling you! If you’ve been around the boards here you will know that rarely does every bee agree and post the exact same advice! Take heed of this moment in time and of the advice you’ve been unanimously been given. This whole situation will escalate and you will regret your choice to stay in this relationship. You are Choosing to tie yourself to a selfish person who will continously take from you without giving back in return. Even more worryingly you are marrying someone who keeps tabs and doesn’t see your contribution or your worth! RUN!
Post # 44
cmsgirl : Oooh a Sliding Doors reference! I so agree.
Honestly, I think that the OP is going to go ahead and marry this guy. And the more she learns about life and the further she gets from her family background, the more she’s going to realize just what she has tied herself to and how inappropriate and crappy her husband is. Only then she’s going to be trying to divorce. She will find herself older with children, and no savings, no equity in the home, no retirement, no money, no nothing. I wouldn’t be surprised if her husband ends up with the kids. Unless she puts up with being miserable forever…but since her fiance is pretty selfish and already planning the divorce I doubt he imagines this is a forever marriage. Again, she will be the one who is the worst off.
Post # 45
I’m going to let the other Bees talk about the situation revolving around your parents, your unemployment, your fiance’s family in regards to finances, etc.
As for me. I’m going to focus exclusively on your fiance. Because as a man, I’m appalled by your fiance’s assinine behavior. It’s downright pitiful. He’s a disgrace actually.
Let me get this straight. He told you he has a whole new outlook on life (a very negative one at that) because he feels he’s the reason why his parents divorced?? Are you KIDDING ME. Oh boo f**king hoo! Cry me a river. It’s men like him, who make us (other men) look like a bunch of pitiful children. Your man needs to grow up! My parents were on the brink of divorce when I was in middle school. The divorce never happened. Years later my father told me the reason they didn’t divorce was so my brother and I had both parents in the same house. But even as a kid, I knew my parents shouldn’t have stayed together. It was a constant theme of anger and resentment towards each other. They were clearly very unhappy together. Be as it may. Knowing my parents were a terrible fit for each other didn’t alter my perception on how to treat women. If anything, it made me want to be better than my parent’s relationship. Your fiance is full of shit. He was either completely naive to his parent’s relationship over the years, or he chose to act as if he didn’t notice how toxic they were for one another.
Essentially, his parent’s divorce is his crutch as to why he’s treating you like you’re a second class citizen? Where the f**k does this guy get off?? How is he going to tell his future wife once she gets a job, which will likely entail far less pay than his job, that she will have to pay half on the mortgage??? Are you kidding me?! Not only that, he wants his friends to move into the house?? Who will barely pay a dime to live there??? And he wants his name, and only his name, on any and all investments?? Even if you put money down too??? And essentially won’t let you have any legitimate say on any important decisions?? Get outta here!! My God. This is unbelievable. If your fiance was a friend of mine, I’d wanna whoop his ass! I could never imagine in a million years treating my wife this way. When we first met, I was broke as a joke. So she put more money towards our necessities. Then there eventually came a time where I made more money. And I began puttng more money down towards various things. It’s called being a team. And that does NOT always mean you literally go “half and half.” It means you both do your best to support one another through understanding. It means you empower the other person if they aren’t quite where they’d like to be financially, mentally, etc.. For God sake. When are people going to understand that marriage is abut being a supportive unit to one another???