Post # 61
dedelovely: No prenup is valid unless both parties have independent representation, good for you for retaining your own counsel. To be valid there must also be full disclosure of assets. As far as the will, I am sorry to say even if he showed you a will he could change it at any time. He would have to establish some sort of irrevocable trust for you, or perhaps a life insurance policy with you as beneficiary for you to be sure of being left all or part of his estate. Your attorney can advise you best.
Please ask your attorney what would be a fair settlement in the event of divorce and work from that – don’t give up any more than you feel good about. He is asking you not to be emotional but he seems to have a lot of emotions in what he has prepared, and they aren’t good emotions.
Ask your attorney also if there can be clauses which give you more if the marriage lasts a long time.
Wishing you the best. You have a good head on your shoulders – don’t let anyone make you feel less than worthy.
Post # 62
KoiKove: He’s 15 years older than you. Maybe he is holding out the hope of you being his beneficiary so that you will take care of him if he becomes disabled in order to inherit under the will
Post # 63
nycsa: Did you mean to respond to me?
Are you saying that the reason he is excluding survivor benefits in the prenup so that he can blackmail her into taking care of him when he gets old/disabled so she stays in his will?
If that is the case, the marriage is doomed.
Post # 64
KoiKove: No, I meant to respond to the original poster and yes, that is what I am saying. She can test the theory by requesting that a clause be written into the prenup that she is under no obligation to care for him in the event of his disability. He can just “trust” that when the time comes, she will take care of him.
Post # 65
nycsa: I love this idea – writing a clause in the prenup stating that she is under no obligation to care for him in the event of disability, he can just “trust” that she’ll do it.
Maybe I missed it becuase I just scanned the comments, but did anyone else notice that he’s telling OP she’s being both too analytical AND too emotional? I’m not saying the two are completely mutually exclusive in all cases, but come on. Doesn’t that just sound like a guy trying to pull the wool over someone’s eyes? If she points out something that gives him more power/rights, she’s being too analytical. If she points out something that makes her feel uncomfortable or unloved, she’s being too emotional.
Post # 66
Wow I have no words for this. I look forward to seeing what the lawyer has to say about this..
Post # 67
dedelovely: hey! So first of all HE didn’t write this. It was his lawyer who looks out for him only. So you gotta get a lawyer who looks out for you only. I dont think you can even sign a prenup without BOTH parties having a lawyer.
But anyway, this is just a first draft. Now it’s time to talk about it and make adjustments. I agree that the current suggestions are NOT ok! You should talk to your lawyer and make sure proper adjustments will be made before you sign anything.
DO NOT run away from this relationship before talking this through. Don’t listen to people who say that!
Post # 68
Ok, I read this yesterday so I apologize if some of my comments have already been answered.
How long have you guys been together?
I know neither of you have children now, but is it possible you will have children in the future? Even if not planned now, unless it is physically impossible, are those potential children protected in this, meaning are you also protected as the mother of potential children?
How in the world over 1-50 years would you keep track of who bought what to seperate later? Every single purchase keep a spread sheet with receipts detailing who paid for what so you can divide it later? I can’t remember who paid for gas in the car yesterday let alone bought the couch.
I own everything – and its not much, but even I realize that he should get something if we split.
Post # 69
I hope you’ll update us as soon as your appointment is over. I’m very curious as to what your lawyer will say.
Post # 70
dedelovely: “I feel like he wants all the pleasures of marriage and a good woman, but does not want to build a life together as partners and risk losing any assets.”
+1 to this thought.
I am not in any way against pre-nups. I think they are a very resonable choice for a lot of people, espeically if you are getting married later in life. But the idea that post marriagfe that you will not combine any assets? I just don’t get that. At that point, why bother getting married at all? You aren’t really joining your lives together.
I hate to say this, but it sounds like to me this man is not prepared for marriage and to really whole heartedly combine your lives. Maybe because of his prior divorce he’s just been through too much trauma to make himself financially vulnerable?
Whatever you decide, make sure to get your own independent legal counsel. I don’t like the sound of this at all.
Post # 71
RosaBride: The purpose of a prenup is not to void any and all legal protections that marriage provides, and no attorney specializing in marital law is going to have a “one size fits all” prenup that they fire off to a client at a moment’s notice. There are consultations, billed hours, and a lot of client involement in crafting this highly personalized document. You’re basically adding on to existing laws with legally recognized agreements between two parties. Drastically imbalanced ones like the one he’s describing don’t even hold up in court, is he aware of that? All these terms and clauses are very deliberately created by her boyfriend, he is not some hapless child who doesn’t know what he’s doing. He doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt in a situation where he is flat out telling her he won’t allow her any of the legal protection and benefits that marrying him should provide–but says he is entitled to any “marital labor” on her part.
Post # 72
Well, he may not expect her marital labor? He may hire out all those typical housewifely duties? I’m thinking that if she can live rent free in his home on his (upgraded?) lifestyle while she no longer pays housing costs (what % was she paying up to now?), that’s a significant chunk of change. And if she puts tenants in her exisiting home, that’s a significant revenue stream for her estate. For which he will waive rights.
I don’t think these possibilities overcome all doubts with regards to his current views of marriage, but maybe, just maybe, he really was looking at this union as a cut-throat business deal. Hopefully it was only that.
Post # 73
My only huge problem with this is that you have to rely on him to put you in his will. Darling Husband and I actually have protections in our agreement about holding enough life insurance to cover our debts in the other’s name to ensure that we don’t stick eachother with problems if one of us was to pass. It goes on that the life insurance gets passed on to our next of kin of we divorce (clever way to say children) again so neither of us gets stuck with the other’s debts in case of death. Condiering that Darling Husband and I have been terrible about getting our Wills together, I can just imagin your Boyfriend or Best Friend having an event that leaves is mental capacity diminished and he can’t sign a new will, leaving you up a creak without a paddle if something happens. What happens if one month you are having a rocky time, he takes everything out of your name in perperation for divorce, you make up, and then he gets hit by a car? Or what happens in the case of one of my DH’s legal clients if they have a huge will signing party (50 wittnesses), and then Boyfriend or Best Friend does not sign the will?
Post # 74
Logically a prenup does exist to protect both parties but this sounds a little too “protective”. Although I haven’t read any prenups so I don’t know if this is non-standard but personally, if I were going to enter into a marriage with him I would have second thoughts about how much he cares about me and our relationship to build each other up.
Post # 75
…so why DOES this guy want to marry you? Because what I read on the first page essentially tells me he just wants to remain not legally bound to you, really.