Post # 31
“But we need to demand better of our partner than to be telling us lies instead of the truth.”
I think you might have missed the nuance of my post.
You are painting this situation as though the guy is intentionally lying to her and mistreating her, and she should just not tolerate it.
I’m saying I think they share responsibility here. His answer when she asked him if he wanted to marry her and he said yes may have been mostly how he felt in the moment, but it may also have been slightly coerced. He maybe should have been more authentic about how he felt, but she also should have created a safe and relaxed space so that he didn’t feel he had to give her the answer she wanted to hear. (Note, this is a hypothetical and I’m not necessarily saying the OP’s situation was like this.)
I can illustrate this best with an example from my own life. I have a friend whom I love dearly – she is loyal, caring and kind – but she is also somewhat bossy and pushy. She will talk about an event she would like me to come to in a setting where we’re all feeling social and chatty and having a good time. I say “that sounds like fun” because to me, in the moment, when I’ve had a drink or two, and I’m in a fun mood, it does sound like fun.
However, she will text me a few days later and attempt to hold me to that promise of coming with her and I, truthfully, have to tell her that I’m not really decided about it yet.
Yes, we should be able to take people at their word. But we should also take care to let that word be authentic and real, and we should listen to all the other factors in the situation and all the other things they are telling us with their words and their actions.
Post # 32
AS someone who cried and was upset almost every weekend leading up to the engagement, let me tell you something. My now ex husband eventually ended up proposing but only out of pressure and frustration. He made it the most unmemorable night of our lives. Finding out that an offer on our house was accepted was more exciting. He basically gave me a lackluster proposal bc he felt pushed. Now that’s why he’s my ex. But I would definitely keep in mind how much you are stressing yourself. It becomes a really unejoyable experience (as you mentioned) the more you remind and have to nag him. At that point, is it worth it?
Post # 33
ladyjane123 : I think that’s where some of my issues stem from is the fact that we’ve talked about it so openly for a while now. He hasn’t said anything about pressuring him or not being ready…I think he just values the surprise aspect of it and wants to plan a sitation I’ll like or won’t expect. Thanks for your advice 🙂
indigobee : Believe me, I totally hear you! The rational side of me just wants to chill out. I do have anxiety, which I don’t think helps me in this situation. This week, I’ve consciously decided to stress about it less and bring it up less often. It isn’t helping me to be this worked up over it. I figured I’d come on here and vent instead lol. Thanks for your comment 🙂
mrstodd2bee : We’ve looked at rings together so he knows what I like and what my size is. He’s mentioned that the surprise is important to him and he wants to plan; so part of me doesn’t want to take that away from him. I did always want that surpise proposal anyway, so you’d think I’d be better at waiting for it…not so much! I think if the fall rolls around and still nothing, then I’ll certainly feel jerked around. Thanks for your comment 🙂
fcm16 : You’re right; I should’ve voiced more clearly my expectations for within a year. I think we just meant different things and thought we were on the same page. He took the statement to mean he had time to figure out the ring and plan, and I was thinking it was happening way sooner. I think my issue is that I’ve heard other things or he’s said other things (like oh I would’ve done it in March, or I would’ve done it in April) and it hasn’t happened. So sometimes, when I’m really down about it, I just feel confused and a bit deceived in a way. I really don’t think he’s doing anything intentionally, so as i said I’m going to really try hard to let it go and not think about it until my timeline of bringing it up again. Thanks for your advice 🙂
sarahxxxlovey : I’m sure I’ll look back on this and feel silly that I stressed so much! I am trying to let him work through it and not ruin his own process; it’s just hard sometimes. I do feel lucky that I have someone that I know loves me and I don’t think he’s intentionally making it seems like he’s lying or jerking me around. Thanks for your comment 🙂
Post # 34
indigobee : I wasn’t specifically talking about the OP when I commented about the idea of pressuring or rushing to get engaged. Her post simply raised the question about rushing and how men like to play the pressure card.
Everyone in a relationship needs the other person to keep them accountable and honest. My boyfriend doesn’t ever doubt what I say because I always mean what I say. I have never and will never tell him I am ready for a life decision with him but then when he comes to me with, ok lets do it, I say he is pressuring me. We are accepting different standards for men than we are for women.
I see your example with your friend and I understand that. I would counter and say that a friendship is much different than someone who you are in a relationship with. I think that its pretty clear that you aren’t looking her dead in the face and telling her you are 100% on board with going to that event and promising to go, and then turning around and completely changing your mind later. So that example is quite different than the issue. A man looking his girlfriend in the face and telling her he is sure he wants to marry her is quite different than telling your friend an event she mentioned “sounds fun” and having her take that as you promised to go.
What im saying is that if you are wanting to marry someone you should be able to call them out when they are playing both sides of an issue instead of giving a real answer. And yes, while doing so we should be sensitive enough to make sure that our partner isn’t just saying what we want to hear. We need to make a safe space to tell the truth to one another.
But at the end of the day if I am an honest person who holds myself to a standard where I would never agree to a life changing decision with my partner if I didn’t wholeheartedly mean it? I want someone who also is held to that standard.
Post # 35
beekind10 : Maybe I am missing something? If he said a year, what is wrong with it being a year? Also, I suspect that people nagged him around his sister’s wedding has nothing to do with whether and when he should propose.
Post # 36
sunburn : I do feel like “what’s the wait?” but he’s mentioned that he has a plan and wants it to be a surprise. When I’m really down about it my fear is that he isn’t ready and just said that he is, but I’ve given him multiple chances to say he isn’t ready or has fears/reservations. He gets upset when he feels like I don’t trust him. So I feel like all I can do right now is wait. He has said (not to me directly but to family) that he’d make it sooner and didn’t realize that waiting until August would’ve been a problem. Thanks for your advice 🙂
downonmulberry : Thanks for your sweet comment 🙂 good luck to you, too!
m197500 : I think I’m in a similar place; I think he’s waiting for a moment or for it to be a surprise. So we’ll see! Thanks for your comment 🙂
reformed : He’s made comments that he’s never thought of marriage until me, which I find sweet but also wonder if that’s an issue. He’ll say he has no clue what he’s doing in this situation (how much he should tell me, how to plan, etc.) because he’s never thought of it before. But at the same time i’m like how long can you use that excuse, if you know now that you want to marry me lol Therapy has definitely helped me! I have anxiety anyway, so this uncertainty and the whole situation has caused me a lot of trouble. I’ve asked so many times or said “I don’t want you to do this because I’m upset” and I feel like he obviously hasn’t felt pressured or he would’ve just done it already to “shut me up” essentially. I don’t know 🙁 I was expecting to get some negative feedback on here, especially because I didn’t give the entire story; just some tidbits. However, I felt it would be healthier for me to vent on here than to keep asking him about it. Thanks for your sweet words of advice! Good luck to you, too!
tiffanybruiser : I don’t know if it’s just a combination of events (the family diamond situation) or what, but I’d hope that if he wasn’t emotionally ready he’d just say so. I’ve asked him if he has fears of marriage/commitment since he has said he’s never thought of marriage/family before me, and he has said no. I do get nervous wondering why there’s been a delay, especially when I hear that he’s considered doing it sooner, like in March and April. So I feel like it’s only fair, to the both of us, for me to let it go and let him plan whatever he says he’s planning. I feel like I can’t fairly give myself a timeline until the end of August has come around. Thanks for your comment 🙂
Post # 37
sadbee1992 : Right, as much as I nag I’d hate for him to do it out of pressure or aggravation. It has become a super unenjoyable experience and I’m so sad that I’ve allowed it to come to this point. That’s why I’m trying to (as of this week) really push it out of my mind, not ask questions and just try and let myself be surprised. I’m having a hard time not knowing what’s going on, which is silly when we’ve both discussed wanting it to be a surprise. I won’t lie, I definitely have trust issues from previous relationships (not his fault) so I think I just want actions rather than words. We’ll have to see! Thanks for your advice 🙂
nycsa : Nope, you didn’t miss anything. Our ideas of “within the year” didn’t really match up, as we’re realizing now. I know I should’ve been more clear about what I meant by it, but I feel like he could’ve been also. I wasn’t expecting it to be at the end of the timeline; I was thinking more the middle. And the nagging/questions around his sister’s wedding shouldn’t have influenced his decision to propose, it just got our own conversation started a bit. Thanks for your comment 🙂
Post # 38
“And yes, while doing so we should be sensitive enough to make sure that our partner isn’t just saying what we want to hear. We need to make a safe space to tell the truth to one another.”
This is all I was trying to say. 🙂
Post # 39
indigobee : There is a tendency on these boards to give so much benefit of the doubt to the men involved. Too often the man gets all the balls in his court when it comes to their mutual future. As if this power imbalance isn’t enough, the woman is supposed to make sure she isn’t ‘pressuring’ him. And now on top of all this, if her partner misleads her, she’s supposed to wonder if it’s because she didn’t create a safe space for him to tell the truth?
I’m a strong believer in open and honest communication. I would 1000% support someone who didn’t feel they could tell the truth because the truth could put them in jeopardy (ie someone in an abusive relationship where reasonable conversations are replaced with walking on eggshells or someone who is afraid of coming out as LGBT in a bigoted family or someone who is afraid of a bully). Instances where a person sadly and truly doesn’t feel they have a safe place to speak freely without putting themselves at true risk.
BUT when we’re talking about someone misleading their partner, let’s be clear. The person misleading (aka lying to their partner) is doing so for very selfish reasons. Sometimes selfish to the point of cruelty. They may not be ready for marriage but they don’t necessarily want to lose the good thing they’ve got going so they give lip service to matters that are incredibly important to their partner. Sometimes to buy themselves time, sometimes to get something they want (like the partner moving for them or co-signing on a house). If one partner deliberately deceives the other- are we really going to shift the blame here onto the deceived person?
And where does it end? What about someone who misleads their partner in terms of boundaries that were crossed with a co-worker/ ex/ supposedly platonic friend? Are we going to continue putting the onus on the deceived person throughout the relationship? I couldn’t tell you I went for drinks after work when I said I was at the gym because you don’t create a safe place for me to share stuff like that with you’
If my partner doesn’t feel he can speak openly and honestly with me, he has 2 choices:
1. He can tell me that he doesn’t feel he can come to me with stuff and that this is a problem in our relationship we need to fix.
2. He can choose not to be with me.
But misleading me and then blaming me for ‘making’ him lie to me, selfishly telling me whatever I want to hear to look after his own agenda, is not Secret Option 3 for me.
Post # 40
beekind10 : I could be wrong. I just feel like if he was emotionally ready right now, then, seeing how anxious and stressed you are over this, he’d move his timeline up to make you feel more secure rather than dragging it out til the bitter end. I can understand needing a month or two to plan something, but waiting any longer than that when he knows YOU are ready and eager – it just doesn’t make rational sense to me why he’d do that unless he wasn’t quite ready himself.
Post # 41
“There is a tendency on these boards to give so much benefit of the doubt to the men involved. Too often the man gets all the balls in his court when it comes to their mutual future.”
I disagree with this massively. Men cop PLENTY of heat on these boards.
“If one partner deliberately deceives the other- are we really going to shift the blame here onto the deceived person?”
I don’t think the situation I was talking about is deliberate deceit. Also, nowhere in my posts was there any intimation of “blame” on the other partner for not creating a safe space. I was providing food for thought – it’s a well-known principle in management. Employees are far more likely to implement a plan that they have bought into, rather than one which they felt coerced to agree to. It’s the same in relationships. If we want more chance of our men proposing to and marrying us, it would behoove us to be confident that their words come from the heart.
“The person misleading (aka lying to their partner) is doing so for very selfish reasons. Sometimes selfish to the point of cruelty.”
Unlike you, I do not believe that this is an example of selfishness and cruelty. Sometimes perhaps, but I think mostly the specific scenario I was talking about is just a case of agreeing to something in the moment but not giving it the depth of thought needed until later on, rather than actual intentional cruelty and deception.
Post # 42
tiffanybruiser : According to my sources (aka my mom), he did plan to move it up sooner when he heard that waiting until August would make me upset. That’s why the stress hasn’t gone away, I guess, since he has made mention of doing it sooner but still seems to not have anything planned. It would be extra annoying if he hasn’t told me he’s not ready since I feel like I’ve given him the opportunity to tell me if he wasn’t ready emotionally, financially, etc. It does bother me somewhat that he sees me this stressed/upset over it and still hasn’t done anything, but I also wouldn’t want him to do something just to appease me 🙁
Post # 43
indigobee : I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. Likely you don’t realize that the correlation between romantic partners and employer/ employee relations is apples to oranges. And equating you tipsily saying ‘great idea’ to a friend’s plans to someone misleading their intentions to their partner for months on end- not even fruit, in this instance. Misleading someone on your intention / readiness to marry IS a deception, and quite a large one at that.
I’m not saying OP’s partner is being cruel or necessarily even misleading, I just agree with
tiffanybruiser : and sunburn (on another page, can’t tag), that when he sees that taking the timeline to its literal end is causing OP distress, why continue to make her wait and perpetuate her anxiety? Surely OP’s feelings and their relationship itself is more important than a contrived ‘surprise’ moment?
Post # 44
“Likely you don’t realize that the correlation between romantic partners and employer/ employee relations is apples to oranges. And equating you tipsily saying ‘great idea’ to a friend’s plans to someone misleading their intentions to their partner for months on end- not even fruit, in this instance.”
Of course I realise they’re not the same. I wasn’t equating them; I was providing food for thought, suggesting we try to understand our partners better.
But yes, I’m happy for us to agree to disagree.
Post # 45
I hate that women are subjects to the man’s decisions, not a party in the process. In these situations it is almost humiliating.
Me too. I shouldn’t come to the Waiting board , it only makes me cross and sad to see these archaic notions played out . Waiting for ‘magical’ proposals, waiting to be surprise-proposed to by the man you have a house and maybe a child with , waiting for years for him to ‘be ready’. idk . I really don’t……