Post # 1
I’m curious to see what most people think about this proposed idea. Obviously, this “union” is merely still just a conversation and no where near to coming in effect, but what do you all think about it? Do you think it would be good for us all, or do you think it would set us all back? I’d love to hear some different thoughts considering many of us are from Canada AND the US (and Mexico too!).
This is definitely something I have been thinking about with the up-coming Canadian election TODAY!! If Harper gets elected in again, this is one of his proposed ideas for the future.
Here is the wiki laymens definition of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union
**This post is intended for an intellectual sharing of opinion and is not intended to start yet another obnoxious rant or argument. Please start your own board if you’d like to bicker rather than provide an educated opinion. Thank you.**
Post # 3
I know next to nothing about the issue, but I can see how it could be positive in some ways.
If Canada and the US had more say in the way Mexico operates I think we could help them to become more stable and less corrupt.
Also, with how much influence the US has in global affairs I don’t think it’s a bad thing if a few countries had weight in certain decisions that have far reaching consequences.
The combined currency might be a very good thing as well.
I’d love to hear some of the possible negative outcomes as I’ve not thought much about this.
Post # 4
@kala_way: I don’t have a whole lot of information, but from what I have heard I do not think it would be a good thing. Bascially we’d be taking three very different countries and making them become one. I think the voting systems would change, we’d have altered health care programs, and we’d share policies rather than recommend strategies to one another.
What makes me really think is how they would transition it all? Canada is still part of the British commonwealth so that would mean we’d have to cut our ties with them first. We’d then also need to start printing new money which would inflate our economy.
It all seems like a disaster to me, but I too am interested in hearing more.
Post # 5
From my little understanding of the subject, the idea is loosely based on the European Union, and I could be totally wrong in this. The European Union is not as stable as it would appear. Coalitions are gaining momentum in that the wealthier countries of the north are bailing out the financially floundering countries of the south. There are already countries that whole elections are revolving around the concept of pulling out of the EU. If the EU is having such issues so soon after implementation, I am thinking that it would be a total disaster in NA.
Post # 6
I personally think this would be HORRIBLE!
Post # 7
I imagine it would have to do with how much connection there is.
I know that the EU doesn’t always function as well as it should/could, but I’ve never been under the impression that EU countries make up one single country.
Having some sort of coalition wouldn’t necessarily mean we are no longer individual countries.
I can see that voting systems would need to change, but all other changes would really be up to the discretion of the rules of the union. There wouldn’t be anything in particular that would absolutely have to change. It wouldn’t have to be modelled strictly after the EU. I could see it being useful with things such as energy, agriculture, trade, conservation, border issues, transportaion, etc. But keeping out of certain policies, or having limited influence over the majority of issues.
Do EU countries no longer have other politcal ties? I’ve always understood that the “commonwealth” idea was more ceremonial now than having any real purpose.
I agree that it could be utterly terrible, but with so many possibilities in the way it could be structured and run I don’t think you can say for certain that there is no way it could be a positive thing.
Post # 8
Umm… where/when exactly did Harper propose this?
Post # 9
@Beluga: Stephen Harper officially endorsed the idea in 2007 and has continuously supported it since then. He actually made an official statement of endorsement at a meeting that was held in New York in 2007. Since that time he has re-elected individuals who share his beliefs in a NAU (North American Union) and has also kept close ties to American politicians who agree that we should form a union.
Here is an article from the Prince George Citizen (2008): http://www.infowars.com/prime-minister-harper-officially-endorses-north-american-union/
Here is an article from the Canadian (2011): http://lecanadian.com/2011/04/22/ndp-canadas-best-hope-against-harpers-north-american-union-agenda/
@kala_way: From what I have read, the original proposal called for an amalgamation of the three countries to be govered by one body. This would mean we would essentially all become North Americans instead of Canadian, American, and Mexican. We should share the same health care and military forces, among other things.
Post # 10
Absolutely horrible idea. No thank you.
It’s one thing to want it to look like the EU, where the countries are a union but are still very independent of each other politically in other senses, but to amalgamate into one giant North America? No. I already have enough problems explaining to people overseas that I am not American just because I live on the American continent. I like the USA & Mexico but I love my own country as it is!
Post # 11
@west.coast.blonde: Can you link to a non-Alex Jones news source? Or actually, forget that. Just an Alex Jones news source based on actual facts and statements? “New World Order” stuff aside, that first article doesn’t have any actual quote from or fact about Harper. It only makes the completely unfounded claim that his appearance at an event is a de facto endorsement of a North American union.
I detest Harper, and like pretty much everyone I’ve ever met, I’m against a North American union. But we can make these arguments based on facts, without relying on conspiracy theories or making intellectually irresponsible conclusions.
Post # 12
@Beluga: I get where you are coming from, but that first article is actually from a newspaper in Prince George. I should have linked directly to the newspaper’s site and I actually didn’t realize until now that the site that is hosting the article is a bit dodgy. You can see above the article the link to the crediable source. I wasn’t actually trying to point fingers at Harper or get into the “conspiracy” side of things, but rather I was trying to see what people’s opinions are. I don’t think this is a “conspiracy” at all and it’s rather unfortunate that the majority of articles on this subject have been surrounded by other unintelligent statements.
The first time I ever heard wind of this union was actually through my political science teacher in University a couple of years ago. I will work on digging up some more “intelletually responsible conclusions” for you. I can assure you, however, that my professor is in fact a reputable source.
Post # 13
I have found you a quote from Jack Layton writing on behalf of the NDP party (2007):
In Parliament on February 23rd I demanded to know why the Harper Government refuses to inform everyday Canadians about Canada’s participation at Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP) meetings. I noted in my speech that this whole process, launched by the Liberals and pursued by the Conservatives, is very vague. Secret talks are being held on security, transportation, the environment, health care and increasingly deeper integration, all without the mandate of Parliament and without any public input on integration.
NDP International Trade and Globalization critic Peter Julian recently commented: “the previous Liberal government engaged Canada in a slow merger process with the United States and Stephen Harper is accelerating the agenda. The NDP demands a full debate in Parliament on this issue. Everyday Canadians have the right to know what is being negotiated.”( http://www.ndp.ca/page/4927)
The quote continues, but I think you get the gist. I highly doubt the NDP party would officially speak to a topic that is considered to be a “conspiracy.” I can find you further supporting informtion regarding this matter if you still believe I am providing “intellectually irresponsible conspiracy theories” to you all.
You may also be interested in searching youtube for the video of Jack Layton again speaking to this matter on CNN with Lou Dobbs. I cannot provide the link on this computer, but it is a news report that aired on CNN regarding the NDP’s stance on anti-NAU matters.
Post # 14
Looking at what happened to the EU, I’m not for the idea. Yes, the NAU would have one governing body rather than a connection of independent states but I don’t think that is feasible with the three distinct entities that exist now.
I’m not sure the American public would be for an official conglomeration. It would mean potentially losing aspects of government and culture that are fiercely defended as being uniquely American and something to be proud of and preserved. It would likely take either the abolishment or amendment to the Constitution and that takes a lot of work- so this would be years away at best, right?
**edit** Looking further, part of it seems to ride on Perry’s proposed Trans-Texas highway which it looks like would require widening 35. There are some large universities and cities that 35 cuts through, this would be a lot of work and likely take quite a few years if not decades. Texas is trying to widen 35 to 3 lanes both ways between Austin and DFW and it’s taking forever. They finally finished widening the split of 35E/W and that took a couple years in and of itself. (Besides, I see Baylor throwing a hissy fit because it would cut into the newly build “green space” to make us look more Ivy League)
I have a friend in AU’s polisci department. I may ask him what he knows of it.
Post # 15
@Knubbsy-Wubbsy: I agree with what you are saying. I think it would be a huge under-taking for something like this to come into effect. I can’t forsee this being anything that happens soon, but I also do believe there have been many talks that have yet to be published to the North American public. To add to your thoughts I think it’s also important to realize that Canada has many of the same feelings in regards to our country. I doubt our citizens would like to loose our health care standards, our social programs, our government structure etc. It would be devastating to all three countries invloved really.
I wonder how the Obama administration feels about the NAU? This might be a factor as to why we have been hearing it less now that Bush is gone…
Post # 16
Wow. I know nothing about any of this, but my gut says No thank you!!!! I am happy and proud to be Canadian, there’s no way I’d want to amalgamate with anyone else!