Post # 212
@lawyerchick13: I tag the post I’m replying to, so after that tag, immediately following it should be the part that was responding to something the PP wrote. There should be a clear “You posted this/I posted that in response” aspect to my tagging. If you do not see that in a particular instance, let me know and I’ll be happy to point it out. I do not do things like, “I think some people are abusive and alcoholic. Not namng names or anything though. @Username1 @username2.” Seriously, who does that?
@iarebridezilla: I have no idea who you are and what you do. Even what you posted may not be true. (Or it might all be, that wasn’t my way of calling you a liar or something.) I know nothing about you and I’m not calling you an anything. You started this thread. It was about a hypothetical bartender not giving beer to a pregnant woman, phrased as “What would you do.” Since I’d never be the pregnant woman in that instance, but I could identify with the bartender’s perspective, I expressed my thinking about why, if I were in the position of a bartender and a visibly pregnant woman asked me to give her alcohol, I would feel it was my moral right to refuse.
Not everyone is going to agree with you on a topic you post to the internet, especially such a controversial one as whether bartenders should feel obligated to serve visibly pregnant women in bars. That doesn’t mean that everyone who disagrees with you is judging you as a human being and attacking you personally. Understand that people can disagree with you and it’s not a personal attack.
Post # 213
@joya_aspera: I don’t think it’s necessarily a personal attack, but it is saying SOMETHING about those who are saying they drink when pregnant, when you say things like “Jeeez, it’s only 9 months, it’s not that hard.” You also said something like…anyone who can’t abstain for 9 months has a problem. THAT is saying you think iarebridezilla, and any other pregnant woman who chooses to have a drink while pregnant, has a problem with alcohol. That’s not a personal attack, like I said, but it’s not…er…the nicest thing to say. In the world. You could say worse.
Your point is well taken: to you, the evidence that any alcohol can harm a fetus means that you will not drink while pregnant. As is the OP (and other’s) point: to them, the evidence shows that small amounts of alcohol do not harm the fetus, and so they will drink a little while pregnant.
I would like you to comment on how you feel access to health care impacts the way in which alcohol consumption affects a fetus. As in, do you agree that perhaps it is those who do not have access to doctors and prenatal care who are more likely to drink to excess while pregnant? Do you think there’s a correlation?
Post # 214
@joya_aspera: plenty of people disagreed with me, but you are the only one who used words like “abusive” to describe the decision to drink any alcohol whatsoever during pregnancy. Since my OP clearly admitted that I have decided an occasional drink in the latter part of my pregnancy is fine, you cannot then describe the act of drinking while pregnant as “irresponsible” and “abusive” without also condemning me right along with it. That would be like saying “ugh, I hate when people wear their hair in ponytails” to someone with their hair in a ponytail. You can say “oh, but I’m not referring to YOU, of course” all you want, but it doesn’t take a genius to connect those dots.
If people who drink a drop during pregnancy are terrible humans, and iarebridezilla admits to drinking a drop during pregnancy, then the only possible conclusion is that iarebridezilla is a terrible human.
Post # 215
@peachacid: I actually have no idea. I don’t know the stats on adult SES and heavy alcohol consumption in general (I assume that those stats wouldn’t change much whether or not the person was pregnant). I actually read the other day that adolescents from the highest SES are the most likely to have alcohol problems, but those are adolescents, not adults. Do you know?
@iarebridezilla: It would have been easier on us all, probably, if the whole thing had been phrased as a hypothetical in the first place (without you going into whatever you did personally). I tried to state my opinion on the topic, or hypothetical, clearly, while avoiding phrasing that sounded pejorative or personal as much as possible. It can be a hard thing to do when the OP has expressed that she did XYZ and that’s something related to the topic/hypothetical. I feel like the burden is partially on the OP in that instance to not take things personally when they could be interpreted either way. The burden is still on those replying to respond about the hypothetical situation and not go on tirades about their detailed specific judgement about what the OP said he or she did. I feel that I tried to keep it impersonal but you did not do the same.
Post # 216
@iarebridezilla: I don’t really think it is a great idea to get on a soap box about joya.
You have been nothing but snarky and rude to any perosn who did not just side with you. You asked a question and did not like the answer.
From the OP you have been angry and upset and pushed that off on other people.
Edited for clarity
Post # 217
Women can do whatever they want to their bodies. It’s your body, it’s your baby. I really don’t care.
But if a bartender refuses to serve a pregnant woman, I support that decision. At least here in the US, any public place can refuse to serve anyone for any reason (Provided that they aren’t discriminating against sex, skin color or religion.) If they’re not comfortable with it, or if they don’t want to serve a pregnant woman, that’s within their rights. You can take your baby and your body and try another bar or place that serves alcohol and try your luck there.
If you drink, I don’t care. If you don’t drink, I don’t care. What you do is your business, but when you involve another person (Such as a bartender), their rights come into play, too.
Post # 218
@Hyperventilate: I don’t know if you read through the whole thread, but there was mention that the argument in favor of a bartender not serving a pregnant woman is flawed in a few ways. One, the bartender cannot actually know if every woman he serves is pregnant or not. Two, by that argument you could say that a server at a restaurant could refuse to serve an overweight person a fattening meal.
What do you think?
Post # 219
@kay01: Yeah, sorry… I do agree with you… just didn’t make that clear enough in my original post!
Post # 220
@peachacid: I didn’t read through six pages. I skimmed the first page and went on my merry way.
Truthfully, I would leave those decisions to the discresion of the management. You’re right that there would be no way to know if the woman is pregnant without the child actively hanging out of her, and even then, you never ask.
The fattening meal question is a bit difficult to answer. Everything is fattening. From a lean trimmed steak to a pile of butter on potatoes and bacon, so that one is a bit too “out there” to answer.
If management doesn’t want to serve someone, for any reason that isn’t sex/color/religion, then they can do it. While it might not be “politically correct”, the reason this law exists is so businesses can cover their asses from trouble.
A hypothetical woman comes into a bar, has a drink (Or a couple, whatever), births the baby and the baby has issues. She thinks, “Gee, it must be the bar’s fault for not denying a pregnant woman.” Again, a hypothetical situation, but better safe than sorry, especially in America. I’d feel the same way if a store denied a woman cigarettes because she appeared to be pregnant.
ETA: Thought came to me — When an overweight person is eating more fattening foods, they’re hurting themselves. When a pregnant woman drinks or smokes, she could be hurting her chid. It isn’t just she that would be harmed.
Post # 221
Okay you guys, flags are flying in, I think it’s time for everyone to take a break from this topic. It’s friday, go enjoy it! 🙂 Have a great weekend, everyone!