Post # 47
@sweet vanity: glad you agree:) However, now I’m worried about YOU. You should think about getting the vaccine even though your doctor says you are not likely to contract chicken pox. He may be wrong and if you get them as an adult, it can be really, really bad-way worse than a childhood case. Just be extra-careful:)
Post # 48
@zippylef: The school I went to had a part in the patent for it. A lecture hall that was often used for my major-specific classes had a plaque saying ‘this hall was funded in part by the proceeds from the patent of diethylstilbestrol (the drug you’re referencing). It always bugged me that they didn’t take it down.
My great-aunt was actually on that drug when she was pregnant with her son. Luckily he was born without serious birth defects, but when he got married, they discovered that he was infertile. They did eventually have two children (thru IVF or what, I don’t know). But THAT is exactly why I am inherently mistrustful of ANY drug on the market. It might seem safe now, but so was that one. And 40 years later, it’s shown to be extremely harmful (I did read that it was pulled back in the 60s I believe). Sometimes you can’t know all the effects until it’s too late. They are now looking at possible effects into the THIRD generation and how it could have permanently altered the genetic makeup (read: altered alleles can now be passed on to children)
That’s probably why I really am not yet a fan of the HPV vaccine. It is very new, highly marketed, and really being pushed. I recognize that other vaccines have a lot more research and time behind them, but I guess I’m just one of those people 😛
Post # 49
@hisgoosiegirl: It was one drug that caused both? I couldn’t remember. I do remember reading about it and it was some scary shit. From what I understand, it was just as aggressively marketed as the Gardasil is now.
I’m glad someone feels this way about the HPV vaccine besides me. It just makes me really, really nervous. The lack of long-term data was really the tipping point for me choosing not to get it. I very much oppose them requiring it as part of routinue school vaccine schedules until more data is provided.
Post # 50
@zippylef: Thalidomide was the one that caused birth defects, sorry. It was for morning sickness. Stilbestrol was for preventing miscarriages and besides the male problems, it was linked to higher cancer rates in the daughters. It looks like both were pretty heavily ‘pushed’ by doctors.
Post # 51
@hisgoosiegirl: @zippylef: I agree about the HPV vaccine. Infact, I remember when it was coming out. I was working at an Ocologists office and one of the practioners there, and infusions nurses were actually appalled about them pushing it and wanting to require it… One said she would NEVER give it to her daughters and couldn’t understand why anyone would. (not my quote, just what was said by the np)
HPV isn’t the only cause of cervical cancer….. look at a medication taken for breast cancer recovery (arimidex) and you see that it exponetially increases risk of uterine & cervical cancer yet Oncologists STILL prescribe it.
I find myself very leary of medications that are highly funded and pushed onto patients…. I know that greed can get the best of people and even if they find issues with things they still push it. (kind of like the drug cytotec in l&d)
Post # 52
The vaccine schedule kids are currently on is a bit intense, so if I can convince myself that Darling Husband and I can handle the record-keeping (making sure kid gets all the vaccines on our schedule), then I’d like to space things out more. If I’m not confident in my record-keeping (bc it’s a lot to keep track of if you are following your own schedule!), then I’ll follow the CDC schedule. He’ll get all the recommended vaccines —including HPV to protect his future partners– except:
- flu vaccine: after the first few years, I think the flu is no big deal for most people until they’re older (60yrs or so)… Until he’s 4 or 5 though, he’s still in a risky group and he’ll be vaccinated until then. He’ll also be vaccinated if he’ll be around a high risk group too young to be vaccinated (in other words, the year our next baby is born, he’ll be vaccinated for the flu, or if his daycare takes young infants, etc.)
- chicken pox: Chicken pox is a normal childhood disease. And this is coming from someone who had chicken pox at 3 yrs old, and shingles at 20. (Shingles aren’t fun, lemmetellya. But I survived; I’m fine. I call it character building.) The caveat to this is that I’ve heard that chicken pox has worse symptoms and worse possible long-term effects if you have it when you’re an older child or an adult, so if he doesn’t catch chicken pox before he’s 11 or 12, we’ll immunize him then.
@ChemistryBride: Totally agree– over-use of antibiotics worries me far more than vaccines. I find it amazing that people still use antibiotic soaps at home, still request antibiotics from their doctor for colds, that doctors will go along with the request, etc… knowing what it’s doing to public health.
Post # 53
@red_seattle:One of the scariest things we did in my micro lab was demonstrate how people create ‘superbugs’. A lot of times people don’t finish their rounds of antibiotics because they are feeling better and don’t see the need. Well, that’s a really, really, really, BAD IDEA! We experimented with e.coli – doing what a person would do, stopping after a few days. The ones that survive now take a much higher dose to kill. By the end of the 7 days, we had created e.coli superbugs that couldn’t be killed even with astronomically high dosages of powerful antibiotics. I was glad when we threw that stuff out!
Lesson: always finish the complete round – because while you might be feeling over whatever you had, if there are any little germs left, they could cause big problems.
Post # 54
Everything but chicken pox and flu. The HPV vaccine is not fool-proof–I had it and still ended up with HPV (and cervical dysplasia as a result), but it’s better to have it than not have it, imo.
Post # 55
@hisgoosiegirl: OMGosh YES! I’ve seen doctors not even fully listen to symptoms and just cut scripts b/c the parents say that’s what’s needed. UMMMMM… isn’t it the DOCTOR that went to school to know these things?!… BUT Doctors still cut the scripts when they aren’t always needed and my personal opinion on this is they should loose their license.
We have a doctor here putting little kids… infacts on breathing treatments (that say for age 6 and up) simply becuase they have a runny nose! It’s terrible! grrrrr
Post # 56
@zippylef: @hisgoosiegirl: I’m with you both, I don’t like any new drug being pushed as the next big thing. Makes me very leary, so no HPV for me or my future kids. I’m also taking a wait and see approach. I see us as spacing out the schedule for vacs. That CDC schedule is insane.
I don’t do the FLU vac currently and have no interest in getting it. I’ll probaby give to my kids as infants but not yearly.
PS I’ve never had the chicken pots disease as a child (but i’ve received the vacs), so i have a fear of getting it as an adult, especially if my kids get it.
Post # 57
@Mrs.KMM: Here’s a Government of Canada report talking about HPV that says it’s estimated up to 75% of the population will have at least one HPV infection in their lifetime. http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/diseases-maladies/hpv-vph-eng.php So yes, I would call that “almost everyone” or alternatively, “common as dirt.” Not all those cases lead to cancer, but there are other unfun possibilities like warts, etc. And sometimes your body just fights it off, which, yay, but also not a big fan of rolling the dice on that one.
Condoms might help protect against HPV, but even if the guy is wearing one you can still get it from skin-to-skin contact outside the ahem, condom-covered area. ANYONE who’s had sex is at risk for HPV.
I don’t understand your position at all. Is it more okay if your kid later dies of HPV-related cancer or gets genital warts than if they die or are handicapped by polio? There is NO WAY to be safe from HPV without the vaccine, and with that many people having it simply not having sex with HPV carriers is a pretty terrible option. That would severely limit your choices for boyfriends or life partners.
Also, here are some reasons you might not have condom sex:
– you’re being raped
– you’re trying to conceive (those TTC hussies, always having non-condom sex! I mean what do they expect, NOT TO GET DISEASES? PFFT.)
I guess I just don’t get why anyone would deny their child safety from a disease that is both rampant and easy to get despite any precautions you might take. I don’t think value judgments belong in conversations about public health.
Post # 58
@Jillbean: My 50% statistic came from the CDC website so I’d say we both have quite valid sourses there. http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv.htm And I already admitted that while condoms don’t give 100% protection, they do help reduce one’s risk (again – the CDC agrees with this).
Mrs. Spring and I already had a quite extensive discussion about this earlier in the thread. Esentially, I see a large difference between the behavioral health side of public health (which HPV would fall under) and the epidemiology side of public health (which polio would fall under).
I also don’t believe there is enough data currently available on the HPV vaccine – from adverse events, to HPV rates in vaccinated versus unvaccinated individuals after X years, to any really decrease in cervical cancer rates in vaccinated individuals – to justifiy it’s use. Other vaccines (polio, MMR, etc) on the other hand, have very extensive data on all of these things because they have been in use for so much longer. As many PPs have pointed out, many new drugs that in the past have been promoted as the “next big thing” have been found to cause MAJOR issues after they’ve been on the market for a decade or so.
Post # 59
@Mrs.KMM: Condom use does not fully protect against HPV. HPV is not a part of routine STD testing. HPV also causes cancers of the mouth and throat due to the rise in oral sex.
Post # 60
@Mrs Grape: Were you vaccinated before becoming sexually active?