Post # 136
I don’t know, I let my partner “see me like that” because I knew that any bad day thereafter would make me look like a queen comparatively so…
But in all seriousness, your picker was broken when you met him.
I have never once met or heard of a guy who doesn’t have the ultimate respect and admiration for the process of child birth. Even my sister’s partner, who is a Grade A Fuckwhit respects what she went through three times for their babies.
You have your work cut out for you on this one Bee. Enlightening him and changing his views and attitude is going to be tough, but I think it’s necessary. And I would not usually recommend trying to change someone.
In the mean time, start interviewing Doula’s. I have a feeling you will need a good one.
Post # 137
helixthecat : I don’t think men think labor is funny. My husband was nervous about it when we discussed labor during pregnancy just because of the horror stories other men shared with him but it was out of fear not the hilarity of it. He ended up being the most supportive birth partner and I think our marriage only benefited from the experience.
I really feel bad for you because this is the last thing you should be worrying about while pregnant. If my husband so much as laughed at a face I made during labor he wouldn’t be my husband for long.
Post # 138
About the men finding labour funny and women letting their husbands see them like that. My grandfather was only allowed to be present at his and my gran’s last baby’s birth and wasn’t allowed at the previous two. He was heartbroken that she went through all that pain without him there trying to help her in any way possible. After seeing their last child born he was overawed by how much a woman goes through during labour and seeing his baby be pushed out by my gran created a really strong bond with him and the new baby that he didn’t happen with their other two children.
He in no way insinuated that labour was funny or women exaggerating pain. He hates people complaining for no reason but he understood that he could not even start to comprehend what my gran went through during pregnancy and labour.
He still chokes up when he talks about how glad he was to be at their last child’s birth.
Post # 139
Also, while my husband and I don’t have children yet and not sure if we’ll be able to, he in no way finds labour a funny idea. He hates that he won’t be able to share the pain with me and would have to sit by and watch me in agony. I absolutely want my husband with me if I ever give birth. I know he will treat me like a hero for getting through it all. Hell, he treats me like that just for dealing with period pain! 🤣
Post # 140
Wow your posts etc worse and worse. Why would a women let her husband see her like that? I’ve honestly never heard something more ridiculous. She’s giving birth to their child, if anyone feels like their husband shouldn’t be seeing them like that they should not be having a child together.
Its only your husband who thinks childbirth is funny. I’ve never seen that narrative on tv and I’ve certainly never heard a man say that. You have a really warped perspective.
Post # 141
Sansa85 : i also sense some disdain for other women from the op as well, not just from what her husband says
Totally agree with you and tiffanybruiser : The traumatic delivery of my second aside, both of my pregnancies were smooth sailing. With my first, pretty much the only pregnancy symptom I had was the belly. I slept fine I ate fine, zero stretch marks, if you forced me to find something to complain about, I guess that would be my ankles swelled some and my finger joints inexplicably hurt towards the end. Other than that I got nothing, man. I felt a bit queasy at times with my second and my energy level took a big hit—although not sure if that’s more due to the pregnancy or to having a toddler. But I still am definitively unqualified to trade pregnancy war stories.
But my first reaction to reading about OP’s bout of pregnancy-related sickness was not “OMG you must be faking it I never felt any such thing.” Trust me OP you will not have an easier time being pregnant than I did. But the hypothesis is not “ALL women have difficult pregnancies and deliveries.” That’s the kind of hypothesis that can be disproven with one case. Instead, since the hypothesis is “”MANY women have varying degrees of difficulty with pregnancy and delivery,” logic dictates that ALLLLLLLL the stories you’ve ever heard and read about, plus anecdotes from women in your own family and social circle, can’t all be bullshit.
PS thank you Sansa85 : for the kind words to my earlier response in this thread. Luckily my recovery has been going very well so far. I’m just sad because the scar will be much worse this time. 😞 The scar from my first had faded to about 4-5 inches long and pretty faint, and I did not have much of a “stomach shelf”. But due to the emergent nature of my second delivery, my OB had to make a much longer incision and didn’t precisely follow the line of my first scar because she had to cut me in a hurry. I can tell I will have a stomach shelf this time, because I was all belly this pregnancy and am already pretty much looking back to normal…except for the shelf. But! If this is my main complaint then that’s an obvious sign that recovery is going well. 😊
Post # 142
- Wedding: January 2017 - Maui, Hawaii
I feel like it’s kind of a pile on now but I think it’s because most of us are so shocked that you’re ok with all this, like it’s an affront to women everywhere that you let this guy treat you this way and even subscribe to some of the same views. To me, it does sound like this guy has convinced you you need to be the “cool girl” all the time, and you think that makes you better than his ex or his sister, but really it just means he sees you as a doormat. I say this from a place of understanding, because I’ve been a doormat in past relationships. Individual therapy helped me grow a backbone, and I really think it would be really beneficial to you and your child if you tried it. Maybe you already have, I don’t know, but through therapy I realized that most of my doormat issues were learned from watching my mom be a doormat, and I hope to break the cycle when I have children of my own. The reality is, you didn’t pick the best guy to be your child’s father, but he is your child’s father, and that comes with legal rights. It won’t be as easy to move away as you think it will, but therapy will help you have the tools you need to navigate either staying with this man and trying to evolve your relationship under new terms or leaving and building a better life without him. You’re obviously a very intelligent and capable woman, it comes across in your writing, which I think makes us all the more incredulous that you’re putting up with this man.
Incidentally, are you the same poster who’s husband wanted a paternity test? If so, take what I said and triple it.
Post # 143
Whats that saying again “if you cant handle me at my worst, you dont deserve me at my best”… Something like that…
You have a really poor outlook on child birth…. Either because of fear or being niave from watching to many crappy movies that make it seem easy.
You dont want your husband by your side then fine, but I think the both of you will regret that one day looking back. You wont be able to share the story of how supportive mom and dad were when LO was born, you will only have the story to tell of how you didnt want dad there and all dad did was complain…
I feel for you in this position because you seem very alone being surrounded by not the most supportive of people during such a special time. But if your dead set on not wanting anyone to see you at your worst, just get a doula and be done.
Post # 144
You’ve never seen Knocked Up? Or How I Met Your Mother? Or Nine Months? Or Baby Mama? Or The Backup Plan? Or basically any other movie or show that features the laboring-woman-as-hysterical-out-of-control-shrill-harpy trope? These portrayals of the laboring woman as an object of derision are so ubiquitous that the only depictions I can think of that are respectful toward women are the ones in which mom dies. I think the message that (male) directors are sending out to the public is, Look—if it’s bad enough to literally kill you, you’re entitled to a groan here and there. We’ll portray you with dignity. Otherwise, we’re all going to have a good laugh at your expense about what a big baby you were during labor and how fun it is to watch bitches writhe around in agony. I don’t get the humor in it, but I see guys laugh at these movies all the time. It tells me a lot about their attitudes toward women and how pervasive these attitudes are since these movies keep getting made.
I’ve also had to literally tell some of my girlfriends’ husbands to STOP FUCKING TALKING when I visited them and their new babies. The husbands recounted the “crazy” things she said during labor or wanted to talk about how she shit herself while delivering or whatever godawful things I would die if my husband ran around telling everyone after the fact. To me, that’s horrifyingly disrespectful and cruel and really put me off having kids for a long time when I found out what men really say about their partners when they’re out of earshot. I was even once told by a (obviously now ex-) boyfriend that if I wanted kids with him, I’d better wait until I was done with sex forever because he was never going back there again after watching THAT do THAT. (You learn a lot when you have lots of brothers and guy friends, a dirty mouth, and a really crass sense of humor. But some of the shit that men have said to me, thinking I was one of the guys and would take it in stride, has made me want to surrender my human card and join a species that can’t talk).
I feel reasonably confident that my husband would keep my secrets after the fact and based on how he talked about his ex and what he owed her for bearing 2 children, I assumed he got that making babies was a big deal. His bullshit about me needing to adjust my attitude because I complained once in 5 months is a new thing. He’s always been sympathetic and supportive of me when I’ve been sick or hurt, so him lashing out at me suddenly about this has been a shock to me and I just want to know why he’s done a 180 now that I’m actually pregnant.
Post # 145
helixthecat : you clearly just don’t get it and I’m sad for you. That being said, I think you and your husband are perfect for each other because I think you’re both right f*cked in the head.
1) Not all men. I honestly don’t even believe half of what you’re trying to sell but for arguments sake let’s just pretend all the men you’ve ever known do this, much like all the women your husband knows use pregnancy for gifts.
FWIW my husband thought he would be fine seeing me give birth. During the process he realized quickly he was very uncomfortable seeing me in that much pain. There is a level of respect that all the dads I know have for their partners after witnessing childbirth
2) Labour is hilarious. I tell the story laughing. So does my husband. It’s only funny in retrospect. During I was a puking mess who was losing my shit and my husband took every concern seriously and played a huge supporting role. Now we laugh about how I held nurses and doctors hostage demanding a c section. It’s funny because it turned out alright. You don’t understand because you haven’t been through it yet.
3) Have whoever you want in the room. You clearly just want to bitch. We tell you to have your husband “BUT HE WONT BE SUPPORTIVE. HES SO MEAN. ILL LEAVE HIM AND TAKE THE BABY”. Okay, then we tell you to not have him there, examine your marriage, “BUT HES AMAZING. YOU ALL DONT UNDERSTAND. ALL OTHER WOMEN ARE TERRIBLE, HES SO LUCKY TO HAVE ME BECAUSE IM EVERYTHING THEY ARENT. ALL MEN ACT LIKE THIS.”
TL;DR: do what you want but stop the insanity roller coaster.
ETA: I can’t fucking wait for your postpartum threads lolololololololololol
Post # 146
helixthecat : what do you think labor and delivery is like?
Post # 147
“These portrayals of the laboring woman as an object of derision are so ubiquitous that the only depictions I can think of that are respectful toward women are the ones in which mom dies.“
WOW. Your comments are literally so bizarre that I want to believe you are joking.
Those movies are comedies that centre around pregnancy, not labour and the fact that you think they are centred around making fun of labour so men can laugh is clearly a problem with you.
Then there are all these men you know who laugh at their wives over labour, I don’t know if you are just hanging about with the absolute bottom of the barrel humans (your husband included) or if your view is coloured by your extreme sensitivity on this topic. Men and women can bring up a funny aspect of labour, it’s funny when it’s 3am and the mom to be is demanding chocolate cake – that does not mean they are downplaying labour or thinking it’s a breeze. Like seriously a man needs to be pretty F ing stupid to think it was a piece of cake, just logistically think about the size of down there vs a baby, of course it’s going to hurt. It’s one of the most painful things many women will go brought, plenty of people do shout and screen so movies showing that again isn’t making fun. There is a reason scientists have classified it as having a halo effect and that the euphoric hormone seems to make women forget the pain of childbirth over time.
Do you think that those things shouldn’t be shown to the public? That those are the moments women shouldn’t dare let their husbands see them in? That’s a very old fashioned and anti women view, it reminds me of when women were told to get up and take out their curlers before their husband wakes up and put on lipstick because the horror of showing your natural face around your husband, or having to avoid mentioning anything to do with periods because men should be protected from that too.
I want you to know that I do not say this lightly but you have some serious problems with your husband, your view of yourself and your view of women. You should seriously consider therapy before giving birth to give you some perspective and avoid passing this view onto a child.
This whole thing is like “I’m not like other girls” but on steroids.
Post # 148
helixthecat : many women “shit themselves” during delivery. Anyone with a half-assed understanding of what the body is doing and what muscles are engaged when a woman pushes a human out of her vagina would get why that happens and not be weird about it. There’s a lot of fluids involved as you can imagine, and any good doctor and nurse will clean you up as you go.
I don’t know any adult who takes those movies as factual depictions. If they do, then they are either immature or idiots who are too lazy to Google some stuff.
For someone with such alleged respect for the birth process, you sure do talk about it with disgust, and that’s unfortunate. It’s a beautiful process that brings many couples closer together.
Eta: FWIW for the sake of including a spectrum of experiences and not just the stereotypes you reference, I did not scream or groan during my labor and delivery. I was induced early for medical reasons and then had an epidural when contractions started to get intense. Baby and I are doing great.
Post # 149
Honestly the more you write the more I think you married yourself. Your husband believes all women are lying bitches who fake their pain during pregnancy/labor, and you think all men are pigs who delight in ridiculing their partners during birth. It doesn’t matter that you’ve got 10 pages now of people telling you their experiences have been NOTHING like that…it happened in “knocked up” so clearly you’re right. (And my memory of that movie is very hazy but I am pretty sure it’ did not send the message you’re claiming it did.)
Ps. You def might shit yourself during labor. You might even laugh about it. I did! Shit happens….wear it like a badge of honor!
PPs. Movies that portray women losing it during labor are not sending the message that women are weak or should be laughed at. If your takeaway after watching a woman scream bloody murder while giving birth in a movie is “she’s a shrill harpie” rather than “birth is fucking intense,” well, that’s on you. You’re the one putting that sad spin on it.
But if you want to educate yourself about what real births actually look like -whether unmediated, epidural or csection— (and what supportive birth partners look like) there are so many resources. go on Instagram and follow badassmotherbirther and stopcensoringmotherhood. These accounts are run by doulas and they show a wide spectrum of REAL birth experiences. Sometimes they show women screaming, other times the women are completely silent..but every video is beautiful and intense, and all the mothers look like super heroes imo. that moment when the newborn baby is placed on the mother’s chest is beyond words. Birth is vulgar, hilarious, disgusting, amazing, painful, beautiful, and a million other things. It’s life changing.
Post # 150
As far as dysfunctional couples go, you guys put the Jen the Work Wife drama-couple to shame. I feel so very sorry to the innocent baby being brought into this nasty, bizarre mess.
Neither of you sound like nice people, but FWIW if there is a serious disconnect between the way your man treats you and the way he claims he treated his exes, he’s a lying sack of shit. I seriously doubt someone as ignorant and insulting and unrealistic as your husband is ever put any of his exes on a pedestal for any reason. They’d probably laugh their asses off if they got wind of his claims. Likewise, guys like him who talk trash about their exes, I would also take this with multiple grains of salt.
The way this misogynist has you groomed like a Pavlovian dog to not be like all the greedy gold digging selfish ball-breaking whining women in his life (all his relatives as well as his exes), I’d feel sorry for you if you weren’t so nasty yourself. But you sneer at other women in the very worst way, your contempt is palpable.
Other men too. According to you, men are just emotionless assholes who expect women to suffer in silent stoicism throughout pregnancy and childbirth without inflicting their tedious whining on others. According to you, men also ridicule/ mock/ & generally insult, belittle and disparage women. Newsflash- this is not other men. This is a combination of the shitty husband you married and your own fucked up views.
Your baby- or ‘it- as you so affectionately call him or her, is already being used as a pawn by you. Your baby isn’t even born yet and you’re threatening your husband you’ll move away and he’ll never be allowed to see the baby. You also see your baby as your ticket to the lavish, cushy lifestyle your husband’s ex, his sister, his late mother (literally every woman in his life) allegedly enjoyed once they were up on their madonna pedestal.
Man, that poor kid