Post # 136
blackinthesuburbs : Are you arguing that it is insulting for an outsider to assume a married couple has a greater level of commitment than an nonmarried couple? This seems strange considering the outsider cannot know the true level of commitment and data has shown that married couples are more likely to stay together than nonmarried couples. Furthermore, while the act of entering a marriage may be simple, because it acts as a signal which reduces/eliminates other romantic opportunities and is difficult to extricate oneself from, there is minimum level of commitment/certainty that a rational actor must have to enter into the marriage. It is also for that reason, that for individuals looking to raise children with a partner in a stable household (which affords benefits to the children), it is in his or her best interest to require marriage first.
Post # 137
It is insulting to judge a couple’s commitment to each other based on whether or not they are married, especially if the assumption is made that “he must not want to marry her,” which is very common on these boards.
Post # 138
anonymousbee001 : I’m lost at your points. As I mentioned previously, some view marriage as a government rubber stamp which solidifies legal intertwinement. For many individuals, that legal intertwinement is a net negative, specifically for the reasons I listed.
No. See argument previously posted. Marriage isn’t always symmetrical, even in DC.
I would argue that there is NO minimum level of commitment/certainty that a rational actor must have to enter into the marriage.
This is correlation vs. causation. While marriage may be more correlated with long-term commitments, I don’t know that marriage causes long-term commitments or causes the long term commitments that certain individuals may find valuable. Let’s flesh this out, which group of people are more likely to get married? People that value marriage, whether that is a mindset or for religious reasons. Isn’t it just as likely that people that value marriage will NEVER leave the marriage?
What benefits are you referring to? I don’t believe that marriage automatically equals a stable household. Nor do I believe marriage is required to have a stable household. We’re going to have to agree to disagree.
Post # 139
DrAtkins : I don’t make the rates of pay, but agree. If our main employer can foist the cost of supporting their employees onto the government, they will. Also, it’s hard for her to demand a higher rate of pay when she has close to zero college education. She chose to have a child anyway. Because she doesn’t need to worry as she is not married and the state will support her. But boy it would be great if we could all just get paid enough to magically support the lifestyles we desire without having to do any of the training.
Post # 140
I wouldn’t rear a child with or make a home with a man who isn’t my husband. No lifetime or legal bonds without lifetime or legal commitment.
Post # 141
“I probably would have if I were more anxious to have a baby, but still wanted to have a wedding at some point.”
This is exactly why my husband and I were TTC before we were married. I knew I didn’t want to go to the courthouse, but instead wanted to plan a wedding. However, I was over 40, so time was an issue for child conception. I knew we would be getting married at some point, so it wasn’t a matter of one partner refusing to committ to marriage, but wanting children. There are also situations where both partners are not interested in marriage as an institution. They just don’t value it. However, they value and want to become parents. I see nothing wrong with that.
Post # 142
If I had reached the second half of my thirties single, I would have chosen to have a kid on my own. I don’t think you need a marriage, a permanent relationship or even two involved parents, to raise a great kid — though it does make things easier.
I also don’t believe every relationship needs to be “legitimized” with a wedding ceremony. I live in Canada where common-law protections are great, and I totally get that weddings/marriages just aren’t that meaningful of a concept for many people.
That said, my partner and I got married (after ten years together) as a direct precursor to trying to start a family. The reasons for that choice were really personal, and not anything I’d ever prescribe for another couple:
1) we had agreed years ago that in order to marry we both needed to be on the same page about major life goals like having kids and home ownership, and for a while we weren’t sure if we were on the same page. Once we were, (with a clear agreed-upon timeline for trying to get pregnant) the thing holding us back from marriage was gone and we were confident that our partnership would be lifelong.
2) I love weddings, and wanted a big fun one. I figured if we had kids, our priorities would shift and we’d just never bother doing it. We kind of saw the wedding as a really fun last hurrah for our childfree life before we started trying for a pregnancy.
3) Over a decade of discussing marriage and deciding not to do it yet, it took on a very particular significance to our relationship. The ceremony and celebration was a really beautiful, meaningful and romantic way to reaffirm our decade-long partnership and our commitment to taking the huge next step together towards parenthood.
Post # 143
I’m not pregnant yet, but if I weren’t on the implant for birth control, then I totally would plan to have a baby outside marriage
Post # 144
I was planning to do this, but my partner said let’s get married first, I was shocked.. after 6 years of dating.. and so we got married within 7 months and are now trying for a baby.
Post # 145
I personally would not plan to have a child with my partner outside of marriage. For me, I associate a level of commitment with marriage and want that level of commitment before having a child. I can’t say that my feelings wouldn’t have changed should I not have gotten married in my 20s. This is a very personal decision and I do not feel that everyone needs to be married to their partner to have a child. I think relationships are evolving and that’s why we see more people have children outside of marriage.