Would you truly be upset if you learned a couple had gotten "secretly" married?

posted 1 month ago in Ceremony
Post # 106
Member
9023 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper

Same thing in Australia. The paperwork is signed at the end of the ceremony. charlie057 :   jannigirl :  

Post # 107
Member
3985 posts
Honey bee

OMFG, this thread is pissing me off too but well said. I guess every single couple who got married privately in a courthouse and had a 2nd ceremony and celebration later with friends/family but didn’t tell anyone is a greedy piece of shit who doesn’t deserve oxygen in this planet!!! I better stop reading now cause it’s gonna piss me off to no end. THANK U!!!DeniseSecunda :   tiffanybruiser :   fromatoz :  

Post # 108
Member
9023 posts
Buzzing Beekeeper

All relationships should be built on trust. If you lie, especially about something big like actually being married, then you are breaking that trust. It is not unreasonable to expect those you love and care about not to lie to you. It is not unreasonable to think differently about people when you find out they lied.

I don’t care if someone gets married before hand and if I am free then I will attend  but yes I will prioritise someone wanting me to be a part of wittnessing their marriage over a party celebrating someone’s marriage. Same as I would a Christening or milestone birthday. 

 

Post # 109
Member
14 posts
Newbee

 

It might be true, in general, that a person’s marital status is none of anyone else’s business. It starts being their business when that person invites them to a celebration of that marital status.

My pregnancy/parenthood status is none of the world’s business. But if for some reason I decide to have a baby shower, is the fact that I’m not pregnant or TTC or intending to become a parent still none of the guests’ business?

My age is none of the world’s business. But if I invite a bunch of guests to a blowout 40th birthday party, and they take time off from work and buy gifts, is it really none of their business if I’m actually 47? That one’s not even a lie if I did turn 40 at some point (in the distant past) and am sincerely (if belatedly) trying to celebrate that fact. Maybe I didn’t want or couldn’t afford a big celebration that year, but have since changed my mind – does that make it ok to mislead a bunch of people into believing I’m just now turning 40?

If I invite people to a party to celebrate my son’s high school graduation, then trot out a balding 30-year-old man who graduated 12 years ago… well, he didn’t have a party then, and I didn’t say when he graduated, so it’s ok, right? After all, it’s no one’s business how old my kid is or when he graduated. If they assumed he was 18 and graduated recently, that’s on them for being judgmental… right?

At what point does this become unacceptably dishonest and farcical? The sort of behavior being defended here would never be considered acceptable in any other social context, nor should it be. Just because a wedding is somehow involved doesn’t mean normal rules of decency and honesty fly out the window. Anyone can celebrate whatever they want however they want, but if they aren’t willing to tell someone the truth about the thing being celebrated, then they shouldn’t make it that person’s business by involving them in the celebration.

Post # 110
Member
1379 posts
Bumble bee

j_jaye :  It’s not appropriately defined as a lie if it’s no one’s damn business to begin with. No one else’s legal business is YOUR business, and you have no right to any information unless they want to give it. And if you’re so nosy that you straight up ask if they’re married and put them into a position to lie? Yeah, that still says something about your character, not theirs. 

Post # 111
Member
1379 posts
Bumble bee

LilliV :  “I can’t think of any good reason to lie about already being married except that you think your guests won’t give you good presents”

I can–and this thread illustrates EXACTLY why people don’t tell others they’re already married. There are a bunch of judgmental jackasses out here (as evidenced, again, by this thread) who think everyone else’s legal affairs are their business and will write off their own friends and loved ones for it. 

Post # 112
Member
14 posts
Newbee

DeniseSecunda :  Um, no. Someone asking a question you find impertinent isn’t an excuse to lie to them, and the fact that you think they might ask such a question certainly isn’t an excuse to lie to them pre-emptively. That’s even more true if you’re the one who raised the issue in the first place. These things are common sense to most people who aren’t sociopaths. If you don’t want to tell someone that you now work as a stripper, then you shouldn’t randomly start prattling about how much you love your new job. If you do that, they aren’t being rude by asking you what the new job is. If that happens, and you choose to lie, that’s completely on you – not because it’s wrong for you to work as a stripper or to want to keep that fact quiet, but because you went out of your way to create a situation where lying was the only way to achieve that when it could have been avoided. If you want to keep your marital status private, it’s very easy to just not talk about it. If you mass-mail dozens or hundreds of friends and relatives to announce “We’re getting married!”, that’s the exact opposite of keeping it private. If you’re going to solicit gifts or otherwise expect people to spend time and money based on what you tell them, then the truth of what you tell them is absolutely the business of the people you’re expecting to part with their money on that basis.

Oh, and as for your earlier challenge: I’ll dare. I got married in similar circumstances to your friends, for simlar reasons. I didn’t celebrate it at the time, because it didn’t seem appropriate. I also didn’t lie to my friends and family by having a party a year later and calling it a “wedding.” It’s great that your friends love each other and enjoyed their celebration. But the fact that dishonest and disrespectful behavior brought joy to those engaging in it has never made it ok anywhere, and it doesn’t here, either. People who think it’s great to lie to their friends and family for funsies (charitably assuming it wasn’t a gift grab, which at least makes some kind of sense) absolutely deserve to be “shit on” for that behavior, and the fact that they enjoy lying makes it worse, not better. They could very easily have avoided the entire issue by calling it anything other than a “wedding,” and they chose not to. Whatever reasons they had for doing that are 100% on them.

Post # 113
Member
7865 posts
Bumble Beekeeper

Lol, it’s not integrity. It’s entitlement into other people’s affairs that have nothing to do with you, masked as integrity. You and the others who agree with you here are making a mountain out of a molehill, acting like you’re victims of some massive cover up if a couple doesn’t personally inform you that they had a private legal wedding a few days, weeks or months before their public wedding. In most cases the couple doesn’t even consider themselves married until they make their vows in front of everyone they love; that’s the moment that’s most important to them so it should be to their guests as well.

To everyone having a cow over this issue: get a damn life and learn to be happy for people, full stop. Stop insisting on making something about you that has nothing to do with you. Stop assuming the worst about your loved ones. Stop looking for reasons to be outraged. You’re not a victim here! 

 

Eta: it’s also interesting how the legal component is handled so differently in different parts of the world. We got married in the US with dh’s brother officiating. In the state we were married in, the rules are pretty lax about who can legally officiate a wedding (basically anyone can) and about the signing of the license. We actually intended to sign ours the day before the wedding so we wouldn’t have to worry about it in the chaos of the day itself…but then forgot and wound up signing the document a few minutes after our ceremony, privately. Good thing we forgot to do it the day before, or the Daisy Mae’s in attendance would have been foaming at the mouth over our deception and lack of integrity! 🙄

 

Daisy_Mae :  

Post # 114
Member
598 posts
Busy bee
  • Wedding: February 2018 - UK

I’m another one who wouldn’t care about this at all. If I found out that one of the couples whose wedding I’d been to were actually already married, I think I’d actually be mildly amused by it, certainly not upset.

I was thinking, reading this thread, that it’s not something I’ve come across before, but no I’m wondering if I actually have and just don’t know!

Post # 115
Member
213 posts
Helper bee

tiffanybruiser :  This is probably why the couple decided to leave the legal aspect private- because people who they don’t even know them on this forum are outraged *clutches pearls*. Also shame on some PP who say they wouldn’t attend, you’re basically just validating other’s opinions that this wedding isn’t treated as such. Unless you’re footing the wedding bill then I don’t think you have a right to be outraged. 

Post # 116
Member
7442 posts
Busy Beekeeper

DeniseSecunda :  The judgment I see on this thread is about couples lying about their wedding. I haven’t seen anyone say they would be upset if a couple hosted a post-elopement celebration and were honest about the event. 

Post # 117
Member
2019 posts
Buzzing bee

purpleokapi :  wow… I bet you’re really fun at parties!

 

In all of the events you attend, do you grill the hosts about their age, TTC status, marital status, etc. Why not just demand a copy of each of your family and friends birth certificate, drivers license copy, marriage certificate, any pertinent medical info, bank account information, blood type and social security number so you can fully vet them before you waste any of your precious time attending an event. 

And please, you demand honesty. No– you demand to feel so self righteous that you are willing to think the worst of your friends and family. Which always boggles the mind, that instead of oh… I don’t know… minding your own business / not caring, people like you act like goddamn puritans when it comes to things that actually are pretty insignifcant in this world. If you cared THIS MUCH about literally anything else in life, we’d all be a little better off.

And the shrill “BuT ThEYrE LyInG!!!”, again… really, truly, honestly…so what? Is your day to day impacted so much by “scam weddings” that the minute a wedding invitation hits your mailbox you’re pouring over every vowel scouring for a hint of the intent behind the invitation? So what if they lied to you? What makes you so important than you need a dissertation delivered to you as to why they made this life choice?

I’ve got 2 kids, a husband, a job, vacations planned, dinner on Thursday night with my girlfriends, need to run to the grocery story later… I literally give no thought to the wedding invitation stuck to my fridge right now that is in October. We’re going to go, I’m not going to press the bride on if she’s already married, because it means nothing. I like her, she’s a friend… the end.

Post # 118
Member
111 posts
Blushing bee

LilliV :  How do y’all feel about a couple who got legally married nth amount of time before the religious/cultural ceremony where the couple does not put themselves out as married yet because they do not consider themselves married until the religious/cultural ceremony? Do you consider them to be lying?

To them the legal marriage does not hold a bigger significance than the religious/cultural ceremony because the legal marriage is just to satisfy some technical aspect that comes with being married in the eyes of the law (immigration, health insurance, other technicalities of life). In this situation, would you be upset that they are technically lying about their legal marriage status even though to them and most other guests the religious/cultural ceremony celebrated with the people who are supposed to love them is what matters? 

Post # 119
Member
7442 posts
Busy Beekeeper

blackpink :  it sort of depends. Did you run off to the courthouse a few weeks before the already-planned wedding because a partner lost their health insurance suddenly? Meh – whatever life happens. But if you elope and then spend the next year or two planning a huge wedding pretending that you aren’t already married I’m going to side eye that a bit. I’ll still celebrate and be happy for the couple but I’ll have a private eye roll. 

Post # 120
Member
111 posts
Blushing bee

LilliV :  You aren’t reading the question correctly. I think most of us have rarely encountered a couple who decides to elope and actively think that they are married “officially” and yet still plan to have a religious/cultural ceremony to “relive” the “wedding.” Those who elope and place importance and significance of being married with the legal marriage rarely care to or choose to have a separate religious/cultural ceremony. Those couples tend to want to save money because to them the legal marriage is the important one and they do not see the importance of having a religious/cultural ceremony. 

If a couple is planning a huge wedding after eloping/legal marriage, it’s most likely because that religious/cultural ceremony holds the actual value to them, and they want to celebrate it and go big and party with their loved ones. To them it’s important to share the religious/cultural ceremony with guests, and that wedding is what matters to them and what counts for them as the beginning of their marriage. So in that situation, are you going to private eye roll because what you personally find to be significant (legal marriage w/papers) is not what the couple finds siginficant? So you are going to judge them? 

To many if not all of these couples who bother to have a celebration after the legal marriage, the cultural/religious ceremony is what “counts” for them. Why has it been such a fight for LGBTQ brothers and sisters to get the right to marry? Because people put so much importance and significance on the cultural/religious aspect of a wedding and marriage, and the religious/cultural institutions have been against the LGBTQ people from being recognized in the eyes of the culture and religion. LGBTQ people could become domestic partners, which is essentially a “legal marriage.” But the importance, for many of the LGBTQ people who were fighting for the right to marry, is with the cultural/religious wedding; not only just getting some limited legal rights under the domestic partnership but being able to fully and equally celebrate a union in the eyes of the law, religion, and culture. For those who were legally married in Canada and then later have a wedding in the US once gay marriage became legal, you must hate on them too…? 

You are seemingly downplaying the immense importance and significance of a cultural/religious wedding/marriage for many people. The legal marriage is just a paper, something that gives you legal rights, obligations, and responsibilities. But to many people, you are not truly married until you make that vow before your loved ones in a religious/cultural wedding. Who are you to be rolling your eyes at them just because they place importance on different things than you. 

Honestly, moreso than the couple letting people know the technicalities of the status of their legal marriage at all times, you should let people know how you only value and put significance on the legal marriage/wedding, so that couples can be sure to not invite you and not bother you with having to worry about them leading such “lying” lives. If you are not that important to the couple, they will be better off not having someone eye roll them and not be 100% happy for them. If you are important to the couple, better that you show them your stance now than them later finding out that you actually eye roll at them when they thought you were only coming from a place of love and support. 

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