Post # 46
I have a good girlfriend who was a young mom. She only has one son but she’s been deseperate to have another for as long as I’ve known her.
In her mind “every” woman has to be a mother. She has told me “a woman isn’t woman until she’s mom”. Really. Okay. I never told her how I found her comment hurtful, because I don’t think in her mind she thinks it is. It’s simply how she sees the world and nothing I say will change her mind. So I totally get the OPs frustration.
Especially, when culturally its seem like its your duty. I’ve been with my FH for well over a decade, so we have been on coochie watch. Gotta love when his uncles visit the first thing out of their mouths “Are you pregnant yet?” It’s like being childfree doesn’t occur to any of them. They so how see me as less of woman and probably him as less of man, because surely after all these years I should have been knocked up already. Yeah. It’s called BIRTH. CONTROL. Use some.
Post # 47
My father has admitted that he didn’t want children until they had me. He didn’t want to share my mom with me.
He says that my birth changed everything for him and that’s when he realized what overwhelming unconditional love was.
Just my two cents and commentary from personal experience.
Post # 48
bywater: But your story is relaying the sort of comments about unconditional love that have hurt the OP. I’m not saying that’s not what your dad experienced in his life but that kind of love can be experienced with or without having kids.
Post # 49
Whoever said this to you clearly has never had pizza.
Post # 50
I haven’t had to deal with this, so I can’t offer any insight really. Sorry you have to deal with that though. I can’t imagine how annoying it is. I’m a mom – and I definitely love my son more than anything ever, but it’s bizarre when people are militant like that. You don’t know what parental love toward a child is – sure. But you don’t know love? Chill momzilla.
Post # 51
[content moderated for threadjacking/baiting]
Post # 52
forgotusername: Because for some people, it’s not just a matter of saying “I am never having children and that’s that”. For some people, it’s an ongoing process of weighing up pros and cons, evolving feelings, compromising with a partner. For some people, it’s a painful process of giving up hopes and dreams for a more pragmatic approach to their body or situation’s limitations. For some people, having no children involves grieving a life they might have otherwise had, grieving a space they thought they might have filled in society. It’s a realization that the choices that we have or have not yet made preclude us forever from certain feelings, certain experiences. Some of that might be a relief, but a lot of it is really complicated. I am still on the fence, as are others here (yes, the no kids board also encompasses people who are conflicted about their choice). Both choices ahead of me involve loss, and whichever way I go will involve missing out on something. It might not be all sunshine and kittens like you want it to be, but it’s a real experience. And it’s not particularly feminist to deny real women their real experiences because they don’t fit with the ‘vibe’ you are trying to create.
Also, none of us are existing in a vacuum. We all have to navigate an environment where childbearing without really questioning it is the expected norm, where even a hesitation or a philosophical appreciation of parenthood is treated with suspicion. People are being told their love doesn’t matter, that their hearts are smaller than people with kids – this is a horrible thing. Yes, we can hold true to what we believe is true in the face of all these naysayers, but it is hard to stay strong in the face of what seems like a societal majority that believes these things. So don’t tell me that we aren’t allowed to feel any negative feelings about any of this. Not everybody will have exactly the same experience as you, but you seem extremely narrow-minded if you can’t conceive of the idea that people will feel differently to you. Again, if you don’t like this thread, leave and make your own.
Post # 53
forgotusername: So you’re not actually CFBC yourself?
If I understand correctly, you are disappointed with and judging a board and community that you don’t identify with? That doesn’t make sense to me.
As far as I understand the No Kids board was created for a whole range of reasons not as a PR stunt for being CFBC.
If you do happen to be CFBC then I remain just as confused by your comments 🤔
Post # 54
forgotusername: Well, the fact that people who are not CF (I am also interpreting your comments to mean that you are not CF–my reading is the same as Tisa85: (whose comments in this thread have been wonderful, IMO)) feel like they have a right to consistently come in here and police the CF women and basically tell the CF women that their experiences are wrong or meaningless or that they’re too sensitive probably contributes to some of the defensiveness on these threads.
OP, I agree that of all the comments directed toward CF women, these “you never know love” comments are the most hurtful. Love is presented as so central to the human experience and we are so culturally programmed to desire it that when people tell us we cannot know real love because of a choice we’ve made we’re bound to feel a bit shaken, no matter how resolute in our choice we may be in the end.
Post # 55
I just wanted to say that I for one love this thread and this board more generally. It’s already helping me navigate the CFBC world and I’m just new to the (almost certain) decision that I will (almost certainly) be CFBC. (I classify myself as lurking a little near the fence, but thoroughly on the side CFBC.)
So thank you, both OP and respondents, for your insightful thoughts on this stuff.
Post # 56
missmunch: I’m in tears because what you said is so perfect, and it so eloquently captured the struggle so many CFBC women deal with because as you said, it is complicated and it’s an ongoing process.
If I could, I would “like” your post a million times. Thank you for your posting your thoughtful responses.
Post # 57
Looking at the current front page there is:
A thread in career where someone is posting problems with a student
A thread with a bee worried as priest has told the bee they won’t perform her marriage ceremony
A bee posting about an “awkward photographer situation”
Someone overwhelmed about a new business
A bee fighting with her husband about where there dog sleeps
Someone looking for support about her and her husband’s TTC issues
But yeah, it’s ONLY the CFBC bees who should be targeted for looking for support. I have looked through this board and “whining” as you call it about things people have said is not the only topic that has been posted about here. Even if CFBC do want to complain or whine, what does it matter to you? No one is forcing you to open and read these threads, or if you are CFBC, start your own thread about what you want to talk about.
Post # 58
How ironic someone whining about othes whining!
Post # 59
I think you can know love… but there are different kinds of love. In other languages there are words for types of love (lustful-love, selfish-love, mothering-love, onesided-love, etc) but in English there’s just one word. So you “love” your pet and you “love” your husband and you “love” your kids and it’s all the same word but in reality it’s not the same kind of love. You don’t love a brother the same way you love a husband.
I love my little brother, he sometimes drives me nuts and we don’t have a lot in common but he’s a good guy and he’s important to me. I’m building a life with my Fiance tho, we are planning trips we will go on in 20 years, talk about watching our child (and eventual children) grow and have their own children… I don’t do that with my brother. I don’t expect anything to happen to my brother but I’m not planning my life around his life.
I also love my pet turtle… I’ve had him for over 12 years. He’s a great guy! He’s swimmy and he eats all but three fish and those always end up being his tank buddies. But I wouldn’t feel the same way about him dying as my brother or my fiance dying. He’s my pet, I love him, but he’s still just a pet.
I also have a son, he’s almost 4mos old. I love him differently than I’ve ever loved anyone before. And no, you don’t love a dog like you love a child.
I think it’s rude for people to say things like “you can’t know love” etc. Of course, I also think it’s rude to equate loving a pet to loving a child.
Post # 60
yarrowwind: Just so you know before you do it to somebody else, it’s so frustrating when people automatically get on their high horse about pets vs children. Nobody says it’s the same, just as you say you don’t love your brother and your husband the same way. But not all people will love their children the same way (see Joan Crawford) and not all people will love their pets the same way, so you can’t really put one above the other or say that that experience is universal for everybody. I know people who almost definitely love their children less than I love my pets – every relationship is different, and you can’t make blanket statements like “love for children is ALWAYS more than love for pets, for everybody” because it just doesn’t work that way.
There are lots of things that people compare to having babies, and they are usually referring to one aspect. If somebody is working on a book or a degree, they might call it their ‘baby’ because it is the sole focus of all their efforts over a long period of time. Somebody might call their vintage care their ‘baby’ because of the attention and care and expense that goes into it. Nobody is saying it’s exactly the same, it’s a figure of speech and noting a point of commonality. In some ways, looking after a pet has similarities to looking after a child, which is why people use it as a basis for empathy. But the same could be said of any relationship where you have something/somebody dependent on you – if you are looking after a disabled sibling, a parent with dementia, etc. It’s coming back to that thing about empathy. If you moan about having to look after a sick child, somebody might use their experience of when their dog got sick to empathize with what you might be going through. Nobody says it’s the same, but even if they had a sick child too, their experience of looking after a sick child would not be the same as your experience. So please stop trying to put things into moral hierarchies, because this is exactly the kind of rubbish that we are talking about. We do know love, love comes in different forms, there is no universal hierarchy that applies to everybody, and you can’t say for sure that your type of love is always greater than somebody else’s – just because you love your pet less than you love your kid doesn’t mean everybody feels this way about their pets or their kids.